the problem with forms

[sanjuro_ronin]

Who said no contact? What if student does what everyone does with fitness as the goal. Not a martial artist? Only fighters? Is that sport fighting? Street fighting? self defense? Explain that.

I play baseball also with no plans of being a major league player.

Do you see yourself as a baseball player?

[KFNOOB]

No, but I play baseball.

The student who goes to MA to train will see himself as a martial artist...not a fighter. I'd say a fighter needs to fight whuile a martial artist needs to practice martial arts.

[lkfmdc]

Who said no contact? What if student does what everyone does with fitness as the goal. Not a martial artist? Only fighters? Is that sport fighting? Street fighting? self defense? Explain that.

I play baseball also with no plans of being a major league player.

I have an unusual school because right now I have about 25 people fighting or getting ready to fight in next few months

but that is still 25 out of 200something.... so it's like 10% which is high, but still means 90% aren't stepping in a ring or a cage and yet are doing sparring and contact drills weekly

I can tell you, those guys and girls KNOW they are not fighters. That's because they have worked with real fighters!

The irony here is that I have guys who will tell you they "are not fighters" who can kick and punch real hard, throw you on the ground and submit you, ie probably more "fighter like" than a lot of these forms ninnies....

[KFNOOB]

I bet. And Im sure your non-fighters can more than handle themselves in varying degrees. Maybe some can beat your fighters in a no rules setting...who knows.

Wouldnt you say that the people that train at your place think of themselves as some form of martial artists?

[lkfmdc]

Wouldnt you say that the people that train at your place think of themselves as some form of martial artists?

"martial artist" has become a meaningless term, this forum is testemony to that fact

[KFNOOB]

Maybe you guys are too close to the forest to see the trees but people that attend martial arts classes are consider martial artists. That includes people looking to shed pounds (not aerobics) all the way up to fighters. If you want to seperate fighters and say they are the only one that can claim to be fighters...thats logical but even form pansies are martial artists. Even the old guy in the park doinf Tai Chi is a martial artist.

[lkfmdc]

even form pansies are martial artists. Even the old guy in the park doinf Tai Chi is a martial artist.

I think you just proved my point, "martial artist" no longer has any real meaning

[sanjuro_ronin]

No, but I play baseball.

The student who goes to MA to train will see himself as a martial artist...not a fighter. I'd say a fighter needs to fight whuile a martial artist needs to practice martial arts.

Martial artist is a very interesting term...

When I was competing and fighting I never viewed myself as a fighter per say, probably because I was not into "titles", but I fought and by definition, was a fighter.
After I retired I no longer consider myself a fighter since I don't fight anymore.
But I have been know to be called a Martial artist since I now pursue perfection in the MA.
Yes, the unatainable goal.
The thing is, I could NEVER consider myself a martial artist if I had never been a fighter.

[mkriii]

Maybe you guys are too close to the forest to see the trees but people that attend martial arts classes are consider martial artists. That includes people looking to shed pounds (not aerobics) all the way up to fighters. If you want to seperate fighters and say they are the only one that can claim to be fighters...thats logical but even form pansies are martial artists. Even the old guy in the park doinf Tai Chi is a martial artist.

I'm going to have to agree with this dudes comment. If you attend martial arts classes on a regular basis then your a martial artist. Wheather you do tai chi, Russian sambo, BJJ, or tae kwon do......your a martial artist. People do martial arts for various reason (not all do it for fighting, I know its hard to believe). Some do it as a hobby, some to find a mate, some to loose weight, some to compete at tournaments, and some to become better fighters. Wheather your a good fighter or not does not decide if your a martial artist.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Martial:

1. inclined or disposed to war; warlike: The ancient Romans were a martial people.
2. of, suitable for, or associated with war or the armed forces: martial music.
3. characteristic of or befitting a warrior: a martial stride.

[lkfmdc]

In my youth, certainly not now , I used to attend strip clubs frequently, so I must have been, gasp, a stripper?

again, "martial artist" no longer has any real meaning since it can be UFC champion Anderson Silva or the 80 lady in the park doing tai chi

[sanjuro_ronin]

In my youth, certainly not now , I used to attend strip clubs frequently, so I must have been, gasp, a stripper?

again, "martial artist" no longer has any real meaning since it can be UFC champion Anderson Silva or the 80 lady in the park doing tai chi

Ouch !
What a sorry state we have arrived at.

[mkriii]

I think you just proved my point, "martial artist" no longer has any real meaning

I think it still has meaning to those that actually know what martial arts is all about. I think what is wrong with peoples thinking or view on martial artists is that they have been watching the SPIKE channel to much and seeing UFC this and UFC that. What I think will happen is that TMA will make a comeback like everything else. Life is just one big cycle if you think about it (kinda a taoist look isn't it?). For example, you have bell bottom jeans being cool. Then bell bottom jeans aren't cool. Then they went back to being cool. Now who knows if they're in or not. Look at hair do's over the past 30 or 40 years. Same thing. Getting back to martial arts....I think that it will be like any other cycle and TMA will come back. People will get tired of the UFC type events. Dana White will bankrupt UFC due to his ego.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Not wanting to take sides, just making a point.. i shoot well (handguns and rifles), but i have no plans on killing anyone.. but, i am at an advantage in case the need should arise.. yes, i have trained in combat simulation.. and been in actual combat.. but, the point is that training will increase someone's odds even if that training is not "full-contact".. or, in the case of shooting, you don't actually kill someone.. firearms training is similar to forms training.. nobody dies..

Be well..

[lkfmdc]

Greetings..

Not wanting to take sides, just making a point.. i shoot well (handguns and rifles), but i have no plans on killing anyone.. but, i am at an advantage in case the need should arise.. yes, i have trained in combat simulation.. and been in actual combat.. but, the point is that training will increase someone's odds even if that training is not "full-contact".. or, in the case of shooting, you don't actually kill someone.. firearms training is similar to forms training.. nobody dies..

Be well..

Do you know Rex Applegate? Taught the marines small arms and CQC... he would have radically disagreed with you... look into it, especially if you do shoot stuff (as opposed to "hitting it" right sanjuro?)