Listen

[NJM]

ur right

i have no tact i just tell it like it is

i would like to see a wrld where we all take whats useful from everywhere
adhere to principles instead of pointless flowery things

the fruit not the flower

Here's where we run into a problem. Every style has things that don't work. Every style has flowery movements or movements that aren't easily applied in real fights. Many things in Shaolin forms are meant to help the form transition from one stage to another and do not have technique, yet it is still useful to the form. Many contain techniques, like kicks, that exist in exercise form in the sets but have applicable forms in sparring. If you do not have a teacher there to interpret for you, you will not learn the correct application.

I know you've heard this from many people, and it doesn't carry as much weight as it used to. But the "flowery" moves are meant to be cut away through sparring and testing, and they aren't meant to weaken proper practice. I see no harm in having exercise versions of movements as long as the practitioner knows it and tests his sets through sparring.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

There are too many teachers who don't know the proper apps, and just make stuff up out of untested theory though.

[Knifefighter]

Every style has things that don't work. Every style has flowery movements or movements that aren't easily applied in real fights. .

Really? Which techniques in BJJ don't work? Where are the flowery movements in wrestling? Which Muay Thai techniques are hard to apply in a real fight?

[lkfmdc]

Here's a simple question, why is it that all we hear is whining and biotching about how everyone that fights "looks like kickboxing"? So where are the people fighting, in some realistic full contact format, looking like "a crane"? Or "a snake"?

If you really think the masters of old fought looking like Shaw brothers' movies, man I feel sorry for you.....

Too much time doing forms, hiding in caves and doing fluff.... fighting is kicks, knees, punches, elbows and grappling. It's not "Chinese" anymore than it is "Korean" or "Japanese"...... Sambo is Russian, looks a lot like Judo, Shuai Chiao is Chinese, looks a lot like Judo. Take off the jackets, it all looks like wrestling

Why is it the only people who even do end up "fighting Chinese" do so in very limited venues against very limited competition?

[DPL]

TCMA has got to have the biggest inferiority complex of any major martial art. You just don't see this constant 'we can't fight' attitude in JMA. In CMA it appears to be a fact of life that you're always trying to defend whether what you do is worth a dam or not.

Blame it on the mysticism or the Matrix or whatever the frak you want to blame it on, but it never goes away.

[NJM]

TCMA has got to have the biggest inferiority complex of any major martial art. You just don't see this constant 'we can't fight' attitude in JMA. In CMA it appears to be a fact of life that you're always trying to defend whether what you do is worth a dam or not.

Because we are respected enough to be challenged. Some of those arts have been given up on by the legit MA community.

[NJM]

Really? Which techniques in BJJ don't work? Where are the flowery movements in wrestling? Which Muay Thai techniques are hard to apply in a real fight?

Well, my friend, I should have left out the former sentence. All techniques "work" against a compliant rubber doll opponent. However, you must admit that there are BJJ techniques which would be hard to execute during a streetfight. I'm no BJJ expert and I don't know the names, but I think you can figure a few out, being as you do know the names. I find it hard to believe that every, single move taught in any one style works.

As for Muy Thai, that double uppercut move wouldn't work in a real fight, just like the trainer said on that Human Weapon show. And before people get ****y about me referencing the show, I want to point out that what that trainer said was praised by Bullshido and people at KFM, if I'm not mistaken.

[RonH]

look we have proved time and again that what we do works and what u do does not

this is undisputed

and until u can prove me wrong u can not say the opposite

If you treat imitation van Gogh, like it was true van Gogh, and put your own painting skills up against imitation van Gogh, you are not really showing that van Gogh was bad. Improperly done van Gogh painting is not van Gogh painting.

Why is it the only people who even do end up "fighting Chinese" do so in very limited venues against very limited competition?

Much of it requires self-analysis and contemplation for proper development. One of the main ideas, especially in taijiquan, is giving up the ego. By doing so, it lessens the desire for excessive ego gratification, which translates in a lessening of a need to 'prove' to others you know how to fight. It's connected to that thing that's tought to kids that it doesn't matter that other kids at school know you can do something; what matters is that you know you can do it. Given the true extensiveness of CMA cirriculums, finer and finer precision is eventually attained, showing that it takes less and less to do something, but to reach that level isn't easy. External arts are literally and figuratively bulldozing your way through a fight. Internal arts are more about sublty with some bulldozing, with varying amounts with each internal art. But, eventually, bulldozing with an external art necessitates moving away from bulldozing and focusing on sublty to attain higher skill.

[lkfmdc]

Much of it requires self-analysis and contemplation for proper development. One of the main ideas, especially in taijiquan, is giving up the ego.

you've got to be f-in joking.... precisely the kind of fantasy land crap that makes people laugh at TCMA people.... dude, that's pathetic!

lessening of a need to 'prove' to others you know how to fight.

translation = NO, we can't fight with this stuff

[cjurakpt]

Dave, don't waste your time with this guy - I lost a few hours of my life I'll never get back "debating" with him to no avail about his tenuous grasp on reality (he has limitless amounts of Kool Aide on hand, appears to me):
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=47322

BTW - the guy in the video is DANGEROUS - lots of impressionable, sincere folks hearing this crapola and taking it seriously: what's WRONG with TCMA is that judges in tournaments think that they have carte blanche and poetic license to pontificate their personal philosophies and that peole who paid $ to come and compete are obligated to listen to them (but he's got really cool hair! blows away GM Sin Thé)

[lkfmdc]

Dave, don't waste your time with this guy - I lost a few hours of my life I'll never get back "debating" with him to no avail about his tenuous grasp on reality (he has limitless amounts of Kool Aide on hand, appears to me):

oh, yeah, this is one of the fake chi healers isn't it?

[cjurakpt]

oh, yeah, this is one of the fake chi healers isn't it?

yep - healing the world, a million people at a time (without either he or they even knowing it...); read the thread if you want some real entertainment...

[NJM]

Dave, don't waste your time with this guy - I lost a few hours of my life I'll never get back "debating" with him to no avail about his tenuous grasp on reality (he has limitless amounts of Kool Aide on hand, appears to me):
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=47322
GM Sin Thé)

And so the linkwhoring begins...

[cjurakpt]

linkwhoring

isn't that when you take over a golf hole and don't let anyone play through?

[lkfmdc]

And so the linkwhoring begins...

Actually, identifying the fruit loops is relevant... let's look at what said fruit loop has actually said in the past;

I brought down an emotional barrier composed of 'anxiety energy', which was screwing up the mind of one woman, after having experienced it for most of her life (she was in her early 60s when I brought down the barrier). No physical contact between the two of us. I had made several attempts before to help her, but nothing I was doing could crack that armor. It extended out a good meter at least from any point on or in her body.

As if that little tid-bit wasn't precious enough in and of itself......

I'm not a doctor, nor am I a med student.

whether I was a licensed medical doctor is irrelevent when it comes to chi healing. One is not required for the other.

Credentials is not the issue.

yeah, I'm performing surgery with a rusty butter knife in the backyard tomorrow, please feel free to drop by