Why do all MAs turn into kickboxing in the end?

**Violent Designs** · 07-08-2009, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Lokhopkuen

Bawang is cool

He's a brother from the east.

**Lucas** · 07-09-2009, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by David Jamieson

SBG has some of the best instructional vids available out there bar none.
If they have good instructors in your local, I would go! I admire their way of approaching and training martial arts.

ya, i had thought they closed because one day their old location was just gone, then i realized they actually moved to a space i can make it to on my schedule, hella cool.

the guy i talked to said they have a bjj bb. so thats tight. im really interested in the boxing though

**TenTigers** · 07-09-2009, 09:44 AM

I tell'em I do Kung-Fu, and then I tell'em I'm 52. They don't smirk.
I'm not a granola munching tree hugger looking to form my men's drum circle, and they know it. I'm also not trying to prove anything, so their little ego-minds aren;t threatened. Works for me.

**David Jamieson** · 07-09-2009, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by TenTigers

I tell'em I do Kung-Fu, and then I tell'em I'm 52. They don't smirk.
I'm not a granola munching tree hugger looking to form my men's drum circle, and they know it. I'm also not trying to prove anything, so their little ego-minds aren;t threatened. Works for me.

so...no drum circle this weekend then?

**Hitman** · 07-09-2009, 11:13 AM

Dear Sifu lkfmdc ,

Originally Posted by lkfmdc

"But, aside from that, are you saying that in the ENTIRE WORLD there is no one who has trained correctly or long enough to show us the "real stuff" in a REAL FIGHT?

That's the heart of the issue for all of those who think a fight should look "like kung fu".... Every conceivable clip or example with a real resisting person you claim looks like "kickboxing" but you can't put up a SINGLE CLIP of someone figting "like kung fu"

** unless of course you put up STAGED, ie FAKE, pseudo fights from a Chinese TV show"

I do not know what your problem is; however, you are twisting my words and putting words into my mouth for no reason at all, when I was only replying to Andy’s question.
Instead of us getting into a pointless argument that gets us no where as to the reasons why you did it. How about you showing us a video clip of yourself fighting with a resisting opponent on the street or anyone of the NHB around the world you have entered as a competitor? This will allow us to appreciate what real kung fu should look like and stop all the unnecessary talk regarding to this topic once for all.

At the mean time here is something for you to think about. Please refer to the threads I have found relating to why people can not use in kung fu in a fight?

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/...hp?article=591

http://www.shaolin-wahnam.org/kungfuq1.html

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/maga...php?article=57
Iron Fist Master Pan's Champions
by Dianne Naughton
“"When I teach, I demonstrate each movement many times so the students can imitate me. First I show them; then I tell them the meanings: why you do this, why you do that. Everyone changes very fast when they know the meanings. If you can't teach self-defense and you don't know the meanings of the movements, then don't teach martial arts," Master Pan states.
"When a student did a movement very well, I stopped the class and everyone watched. When students watch each other they become more confident. They must always watch each other for two reasons: to learn and to protect themselves from flying weapons.
"I knew that sometimes the students were sleepy, sore, hungry or scared but if they listened to me, everything would be better for them," explains Master Pan. "I reminded them, 'If you are scared, you must practice more. After, you will be free. You will control the dangerous movements instead of the danger always controlling you."
"A teacher must keep the students interested and determined. Ten hours in the gym and I never sat down. Some teachers read the paper - not me. I made class interesting. Every class they learned new techniques and improved the old ones. They improved quickly so their motivation increased."
His reason for leaving China is quite simple: "I want to make martial arts better." Travelling to other countries as the senior coach of several Chinese national martial arts delegations, he knew everyone likes Chinese martial arts. Frustrated, Master Pan states that "there aren't enough good teachers to teach. You must have the right direction; if you don't, you can practice for many years, waste a lot of time and never learn real martial arts." He sees many students who have the potential to fly, but they lack the opportunity.

“This is the key to real Chinese martial arts. After a certain number of years, most sports-oriented individuals must slow down or accept a lower standard of achievement. Some training must be stopped due to health problems. "Real martial arts are different," says Master Pan. "As you get older, your body gets younger." Now in his fortieth year of practice, his speed and power continue to increase, and his body becomes even more flexible with age. “ “

A) Sifu Duncan Leung’s reply to the question why wing chun people cannot use wing chun in a fight.

“The situation you are describing is the difference between academic theory and practical application. The only way to learn application is to use it in real-life situations repeatedly and under varying conditions (i.e., when you do not know what your opponent is going to throw at you) until reactions become automatic, and you instinctively know how to adapt to different opponents and strategies. In the old days, we actually fought -- in the streets, with rival martial arts studios. That is, today, not practical. But, the principle can be adapted.

I can expalin to you how to ride a bicycle -- turn the handlebars left, turn them right, etc. But, until you climb on the bike and fall down a few times, and get the 'feel' of it for yourself, you do not know how to ride a bike.

Let me reiterate the four fundamental elements that are necessary to the successful learning of Wing Chun, as specified by my Sifu, Yip Man:

1. Desire: an intense desire to acquire the art.

2. Guts and stamina: the willingness and ability to take the pain and punishment that accompany the learning process.

3. Time: I practiced 6 hours a day, 7 days a week for over four years to learn applied Wing Chun.

4. Money: most teachers need to make a living.

Interestingly, innate talent is not really essential, but the above characteristics are. Without these, it is impossible to become really good. And, in today's world, very few students possess these four qualities.”

B) According to Sifu Lai Hung and Sifu Brian Kingborg in their book “The Secrets of Northern Shaolin Kung fu”.
A form excused with speed and force is an accurate imitation of actual fighting. The untrained people often doubted whether the forms can be use in fight, because they cannot imagine how to use those elaborate techniques in combat. However, high level martial artists can and do fight in this way. Unfortunately, there are few with the talent and determination to achieve such a level”

C) A part of the interview with sifu Chan Wai Man by a martial arts magazine.
“I had the same attitude as Bruce Lee. In the old days, you could lean traditional kung fu, and you had to train many years before you could fight well. With boxing or kick boxing you could train hard for only one year, and already be effective. I had worked as a bodyguard before, and you couldn’t use kung fu to fight. It wasn’t like kung fu challenge match! When you fought, it was like what we call a “dar-gow”, a dog fight. Anything goes! For this reason, I stopped learning kung fu and shifted to the boxing style. Bruce Lee was the same. He started focusing on western style conditioning, like running, skipping, weights, and bag work.”

D) Sifu Leung Ching Gon stated in his book “The iron palm” – that many Chinese kung fu teachers did not like to teach non Chinese people. If they were to teach non Chinese people, they would not show them the real stuff. They would also charged a lot of money and teach a lot of worthless techniques to people.
There were many conmen teaching B.S Chinese kung fu in Japan.

E) Nick Evangelista stated in his book “The art and science of fencing” that the classical fencing method has virtually been abandoned by western fencers due to the fast food culture.

F) According to Grandmaster Leung Ting in his book “Roots of Wing Chun” – he has the largest kung fu school in the world and has branches in 60 countries, including Thailand. Many people in his organisation are highly skilled black belts martial instructors in different field. His organisation also teaches members of the Special Forces, ordinary police officers, prison guards, security guards and undercover policemen around the world. The members of the world elite security forces can testify the effective of wing Chun (Chinese martial arts). Those people are not fools or laymen, who can be easily convinced or taken in by propaganda. Even Frank Bruno, the former world heavy weight champion of boxing, when to the international head quarter of the IWTA and learnt some wing tsun techniques with Sifu Cheng Cheus Fun.
He also stated in his other books that many dedicated martial artists who trained for many years were unable to use their kung fu in fights. This was because they had not been taught properly. Even wing chun students could not perform chain punches in fights.

Do you honestly believed that the world’s elite security forces, western boxers and professional Thai boxers (from Thailand) would waste their time and money learning Wing Tsun (CMA), if they only ended up fighting like kick boxers/ boxers? When those people are already experts in boxing and kick boxing before they even learned wing Tsun.

**Hitman** · 07-09-2009, 11:14 AM

G) A part of the interview of the late Sifu Chan Hon-Chung in Hong Kong.
“In my time the pupils were more obedient to the teacher than to their parents, and this made teaching much easier. For example, the teacher could tell his pupils to practise solidly for hours without any compliant from them. That has changed recently. We are no longer called teachers, but coaches. There is no longer respect on the pupil’s side towards the teacher because people think since fees have been paid, we are obliged to provide that much money’s worth of teaching. This attitude makes it impossible for the teacher to teach the pupils the essence of the art. That is why among the several thousands of pupils I have, not even ten of them are good enough to be instructors. Hung kuen is very difficult to learn and no one can teach others if he or she is not an expert. It takes at least eight years for me to teach the students properly, whereas people will learn for only two or three years before they leave.
On the other hand I am ashamed of myself in that foreign instructors of martial arts, such as the Japanese and Koreans, are really dedicated. They teach and supervise practice sessions solidly for several hours every day, whereas the Chinese instructors leave the pupil’s to practise by themselves. They may teach them new techniques, but only when they feel like it.”
Sifu Chan Hon-Chung practised each evening from 7pm to midnight and then rose at four the next morning to practise for first 6 months of Hung Kuen training. He then practised 5 hours every night.

**lkfmdc** · 07-09-2009, 11:30 AM