Conditioning and wing chun

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yep yep...that's the idea I was trying to get across...thanks for the elaboration Phil!

Soooo to expand on the conditioning....

How long of a fight do you each think you could for? Say 2 minute rounds?

Intensity defines pace, look at world class sprinters, how long can they go at full speed ?

[couch]

Intensity defines pace, look at world class sprinters, how long can they go at full speed ?

And whatever activity you train for, consistently, I believe the body adapts. If you're used to 3 minutes of intense activity and then you rest for 10 minutes, I think the body would have a hard time reacting to a 10 minute interval of intense activity.

So, for curiousity's sake, when someone is doing interval training is it best to always mix up the times (eg: HITT/Tabata) so that the body never gets used to feeling comfortable?

[sanjuro_ronin]

The only thing the body doesn't adapt to is intensity because as the body "grows" to adapt, your intensity should "grow" too, in theory of course.

Confusing your muscles is an old "trick" for body builders and has recently been done by Strength and performance athletes.
It has pros and cons of course, specificity and all that.
But more often than not, if done correctly, it works way better than almost anythign else out there.

[Liddel]

How many of you guys have trained to the point of exhaustion, and then tried to use wing chun in free sparring...just to see what would happen?

POE ? perhaps not prior to sparring but after for sure.....

Generally speaking when its just me and the other senior guys at my training -
ill begin with pad work - then pumelling crash pad - bridging (holding in pushup position) for three mins - then after a little Gor Sao and then we get right to sparring.

We spar untill someone has had enough which can be up to an hour or so, stop start as we change partners etc. gassing yes / chucking not so much prob right before LOL

This will be twice a week out of four sessions. Ill personally do this once or twice more during a week if my other buddies are keen to train. (this is outside VT)

I often step up the tempo if its been a party week and i need to work off some beer LOL

DREW

[chisauking]

POE testing is for girlies!

At our school, we nominate a student to bash each month. A group of us would ambush the nominated student either outside the school or his house. We would all set upon him, bashing him\her (there's no predudice at our school) until they are black and blue. After the beating, the sensi would then test to see whether they are capable of applying their wing chun still.

The reasons\benefit for this test is as follows:

1) To see whether you can still respond after being set upon by a gang, since gang attacks is all too often innner city areas.
2) To see whether they can respond after such a traumatic experience. After all, what good is your wing chun if you can't apply after a state of shock?
3) To see whether your body & mind is tough enough to endure a good beating. Let's face it, no matter how good you are, you are going to get hit in a real fight.
4) To see whether they have the right character\mind & atitude for wing chun training. After all, who wants to wast time training a pu55y?

Disclaimer: if you are thinking of using our method of testing, remember to wear balacavers, since some students just don't have a sense of traditional training and therefore they may sue your a55 if they recognise your group.

[Lee Chiang Po]

I have a completely different philosophy when it comes to conditioning. When I would train my WC I would try to do so in as relaxed a mode as humanly possible. My endurance and strength training would be seperated and I would never work until I puked. No reason to do that. If you have not won a fight in 30 seconds you might should consider hauling ass because you probably won't whip him. And especially if you are starting to run out of gas.
2 or 3 minute rounds are not supported by the normal street fighting programs. They just usually start up spontaniously and last until someone is beaten down.
I never could figure out how to actually spar with some one WC without injuring them or getting injured.

[HardWork8]

POE testing is for girlies!

At our school, we nominate a student to bash each month. A group of us would ambush the nominated student either outside the school or his house. We would all set upon him, bashing him\her (there's no predudice at our school) until they are black and blue. After the beating, the sensi would then test to see whether they are capable of applying their wing chun still.

The reasons\benefit for this test is as follows:

1) To see whether you can still respond after being set upon by a gang, since gang attacks is all too often innner city areas.
2) To see whether they can respond after such a traumatic experience. After all, what good is your wing chun if you can't apply after a state of shock?
3) To see whether your body & mind is tough enough to endure a good beating. Let's face it, no matter how good you are, you are going to get hit in a real fight.
4) To see whether they have the right character\mind & atitude for wing chun training. After all, who wants to wast time training a pu55y?

Disclaimer: if you are thinking of using our method of testing, remember to wear balacavers, since some students just don't have a sense of traditional training and therefore they may sue your a55 if they recognise your group.

You have a Wing Chun sensei?

[Mr Punch]

I've trained after heavy lifting sessions (where my fine-motor skills are sometimes so fried I could barely make a cup of tea), after heavy HIIT sessions (the best are when you've really worked your legs till you can barely pull stance, or when you've been hitting tabata pushups until you can't lift your arms) and after running and swimming sprints. My MMA class used to regularly start with more HIIT than I could handle at first.

I have a completely different philosophy when it comes to conditioning. When I would train my WC I would try to do so in as relaxed a mode as humanly possible.

I think the point is that if you've worked all your muscles to exhaustion you are as relaxed as you're ever going to be: you simply don't have any energy left, so you can't possibly tense up.

My endurance and strength training would be seperated and I would never work until I puked. No reason to do that.

Agreed on the train-till-puke thing. If you're doing that you're eating at the wrong times, or just eating the wrong stuff. I've trained till I've been totally spent but I've never thrown up. Mind you, I have heard that some people have more of a tendency for it than others... maybe it's good self defence to chuck up on your attackers...?!

If you have not won a fight in 30 seconds you might should consider hauling ass because you probably won't whip him. And especially if you are starting to run out of gas.

Again, the point is some people will gas in (or in under!) literally 30 secs whether they've won or not, esp if they're not used to banging in a high-pressure situation, trying to keep their breathing regular etc... so how the hell are you going to haul ass!? I don't understand any reluctance to improve your body and its functioning in general.

You have a Wing Chun sensei?

I think he was talking about the bo-staff.

BTW, chisauking, I've done that kind of training before, but wouldn't do it anymore cos I'm a teacher and my head and the school board wouldn't take it very well if turned up in front of the class with my face beaten to ****.

[Phil Redmond]

Yep yep...that's the idea I was trying to get across...thanks for the elaboration Phil!

Soooo to expand on the conditioning....

How long of a fight do you each think you could for? Say 2 minute rounds?

If anyone here was a student in Duncan Leung's school in NYC or their Sifu was they can tell you you about the way we trained WC. Keith Mazza's first WC Sifu also trained there.
so we both know about training WC for real combat. There were times where I did so much chi sao that I couldn't take my shirt off at night. When I sparred I could keep my arms up and fresh longer than my opponents because of that training. We also conditioned our natural weapons. Sifu Cheung and Bruce Lee also came from an intense training background by doing drills over and over and over until exhaustion. In a real fight exhaustion is a big factor because your life can be on the line. You don't get that from low intensity training.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If anyone here was a student in Duncan Leung's school in NYC or their Sifu was they can tell you you about the way we trained WC. Keith Mazza's first WC Sifu also trained there.
so we both know about training WC for real combat. There were times where I did so much chi sao that I couldn't take my shirt off at night. When I sparred I could keep my arms up and fresh longer than my opponents because of that training. We also conditioned our natural weapons. Sifu Cheung and Bruce Lee also came from an intense training background by doing drills over and over and over until exhaustion. In a real fight exhaustion is a big factor because your life can be on the line. You don't get that from low intensity training.

Phil has chain punched the correct and finished it off with a toe kick to the prostate.


We need to remember the distinction between TRAINING and PRACTICING.

[couch]

You have a Wing Chun sensei?

Dood...he's kidding. However, those UK WC guys can be HARDCORE.

[anerlich]

At our school, we nominate a student to bash each month. A group of us would ambush the nominated student either outside the school or his house.

Might be OK in the UK. In the US, it would be a great way to get shot.

The word you were looking for is: balaclava

[anerlich]

Again, the point is some people will gas in (or in under!) literally 30 secs whether they've won or not, esp if they're not used to banging in a high-pressure situation, trying to keep their breathing regular etc... so how the hell are you going to haul ass!?

Exactly.

According to the Center for Disease Control, you're thousands of times more likely to die from condtions related to a sedentary lifestyle than from a violent assault. If you're REALLY interested in survival like so many sportfighting haters claim to be, you'd better factor that into your training.

[Phil Redmond]

Might be OK in the UK. In the US, it would be a great way to get shot. . . .

Or sued . . .

[Lee Chiang Po]

If you have not won a fight in 30 seconds you might should consider hauling ass because you probably won't whip him. And especially if you are starting to run out of gas.

Again, the point is some people will gas in (or in under!) literally 30 secs whether they've won or not, esp if they're not used to banging in a high-pressure situation, trying to keep their breathing regular etc... so how the hell are you going to haul ass!? I don't understand any reluctance to improve your body and its functioning in general.


This is my point exactly. If you start running out of energy in less than 2 minutes you need to revamp your program.
As a young man, my training consisted of more time spent than most people would devote today. 7 days a week, and as much as 6 hours in some days, 4 hours in other days. This is far more than the one or two times a week for a couple of hours of training. Strength and endurance training was consistant and daily. I trained my body hard, and I trained my weapons hard. My hands were very hard. Footwork was trained for hours at a time. I did drills and single technique work as well.
I feel that working yourself to death and then training is going to cause you to lose focus and form. Train very hard, but not until you puke. Train often rather than killing yourself a couple of times a week or month. Then when you are training your WC in a more relaxed state you can train longer and with more focus and form. You have more power and wind to put into your work. I would always end my WC training sessions with a good solid workout.