Hello all,
Its good to see the same Zest in these discusions hahahaha.
I noticed this:
Alan you and Victor don't recognize the answer because you refuse to call a punch a punch and a kick a kick All WING CHUN COMES FROM THE SAME SOURCE
There are similarities that will always exist and if you throw in White Crane of course you will needlessly make things harder than need be and confusing. After 1850 there exist at least 2 branches of Wing Chun that of Wong Wa Bo/ Leung Yee Tai and that of Hung Gun Biu and the Boxer Society. This explains why some things may now look different.
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My replies below:
Alan you and Victor don't recognize the answer because you refuse to call a punch a punch and a kick a kick All WING CHUN COMES FROM THE SAME SOURCE
In order to make this sort of statement you need more data to back it up. What is the Source (please dont repeat the shaolin mantra) that all sprung from and what happen in the mid 1800's that caused the paradigm shift? JR
After 1850 there exist at least 2 branches of Wing Chun that of Wong Wa Bo/ Leung Yee Tai and that of Hung Gun Biu and the Boxer Society. This explains why some things may now look different.
Wong Wah Bo and Leung Yee Tai are two "main" lines of Wing Chun that can be traced and are not to be lumped in to the same category. Both did different stuff. According to Lao Ba, Wong Wah Bo (a native of Kulo) taught the San Chin (facing) or Straight Body version of Wing Chun. This is the paradigm shift of 1850. Leung Yee Tai did the Yim/Leung family version.
So, your linking of WWB & LYT as one lineage is not accurate. The two main WC sects are the Males playing Males and Males playing Females. One had affiliation with the Lee Man Mao group and the other was more quiet. This is also why there is a sh*t load of cross contaminated stories between families. Also, you need to consider the fact that many people wore Red Turbans when involved with LMM. This does not mean they were the Secret Society preserving the original art as suggested. Pre-1850 system! It actually means they have more relation to WWB & LMM and their history has been intertwined. JR
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There are similarities that will always exist and if you throw in White Crane of course you will needlessly make things harder than need be and confusing.
Throwing in White Crane does not make anything harder. It actually simplifies things big time! We can use it to trace our root but also our differences. You need to find the root (or parents) otherwise anyone can try to claim anything is anything. The Lee Man Mao group and the "softer" (snake style) Crane would never in a miliion years associate if they had no common background. The people were just two tribal back then. Crane being a common ground made for a long lasting friendship that has to this day been maintained. JR
So, the More Likely scenerio is!!!! On the Junk there was:
Males playing Females (Yim & Leung art) "pre-1850"
Males playing Males (WWB art) "after 1850"
Lee Man Mao's friends. "more crane than wing chun and does not have SLT root"
Just some thoughts for the fun discussion. In the end, WHO CARES! It would be beneficial if HFY would figure out what is the Military/Monk systems they were supposed to be born from? This makes for better technical discussions and can show where/why there was a paradigm shift etc...
After all the research, the difference between the two main lines of WC are very little IMO.
Gotta run!