Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Citong Shifu]

IMO there is no one true "real" Shaolin anymore. Even the Shaolin taught in the PRC isn't the "real" Shaolin most on here are talking about. It just doesn't exist anymore. The legends are a fun source of inspiration to make us train harder, that's about it.

Shhhhhhhh, dont say that too loud, lol... Dont you know, Songshan is the "ONLY" real Shaolin kungfu resource! And, if you want to be "REAL" Shaolin kungfu pratitioner you "HAVE" to learn and practice Buddhism or you'll never master your shaolin kungfu, lol... This is true. Read there articles.... Anyway, just thought I'd throw that in there...

[Citong Shifu]

I think everyone has established that SD is a aclectic style. Lets move on... We all know what we have and dont have. I can prove my Shaolin lineage through documentation back to Hui Kai Monk. With this said, my lineage from Hui Kai Monk to his elders have been documented for centuries. So, I have absolutely "No" reservation at all with using my Shaolin kungfu lineage and name. Now, I dont claim to be a Shaolin monk, I'm not and dont practice Chan. See my point?

This is my point. SD is SD, "WAY OF SHAOLIN" not "WAY OF SHAOLIN KUNG FU". Look at the name SD. I may not fully agree with SD'S claims on having and teaching the final version of Fukien Shaolin Temple Kung Fu due to them not having 95% of the material I have from the Fukien Temple era (which were passed to me from my sifu - Cai Yingxia which was passed to him from Zhuang Zi Shen, which was passed to him by Zheng Yi Shan, which was passed to him from Hui Kai Monk of the Fukien Shaolin Temple) that they refer to. I refer to the same era/s in my lineage history... However, I do know the Fukien Temple's lineage and the styles taught within that particular era...????.... Nonetheless, I welcome the SD members always. Lets move on regardless of our opinions on what is or should be... Plus, I want to see some more SD vids, lol.... I find them interesting. Some SD seem to move pretty fluid, we as others, well... But, this is true with any style... Lets see some more vids.... Please.....

CS

[tattooedmonk]

I think everyone has established that SD is a aclectic style. Lets move on... We all know what we have and dont have. I can prove my Shaolin lineage through documentation back to Hui Kai Monk. With this said, my lineage from Hui Kai Monk to his elders have been documented for centuries. So, I have absolutely "No" reservation at all with using my Shaolin kungfu lineage and name. Now, I dont claim to be a Shaolin monk, I'm not and dont practice Chan. See my point?

This is my point. SD is SD, "WAY OF SHAOLIN" not "WAY OF SHAOLIN KUNG FU". Look at the name SD. I may not fully agree with SD'S claims on having and teaching the final version of Fukien Shaolin Temple Kung Fu due to them not having 95% of the material I have from the Fukien Temple era (which were passed to me from my sifu - Cai Yingxia which was passed to him from Zhuang Zi Shen, which was passed to him by Zheng Yi Shan, which was passed to him from Hui Kai Monk of the Fukien Shaolin Temple) that they refer to. I refer to the same era/s in my lineage history... However, I do know the Fukien Temple's lineage and the styles taught within that particular era...????.... Nonetheless, I welcome the SD members always. Lets move on regardless of our opinions on what is or should be... Plus, I want to see some more SD vids, lol.... I find them interesting. Some SD seem to move pretty fluid, we as others, well... But, this is true with any style... Lets see some more vids.... Please.....

CS

Remember there was at least three Shaolin temples located in that area.

[Citong Shifu]

Remember there was at least three Shaolin temples located in that area.

True, but only one was partial to kungfu training. Other Temples of the area focused on Buddhism and its practices... According to the history that was past to me.... Fukien Shaolin Temple is really vague, I agree... In my styles history, the Fukien Shaolin Temple was located in Quanzhou (known as Citong in old times). Marco Polo writes about his adventure through Fujian and the city of Citong (Quanzhou). He even mentions visiting the Shaolin Temple there... That can be pulled up online (China adventures of Marco Polo)...

Dont get me wrong. This is my history that was passed to me just as yours was passed to you.... I'm not saying that my history is 100% factual, but it sure has alot of public documention by world historian and archives to support it.

Unless, your talking about the PRC's version, then the original Fukien Temple would have been located in Putain, where they have since rebuilt the temple, lol... I mean, where they can control the Temple affairs, etc....

You see, everyone has a version of this and that, lol... I'm not down grading SD, it had to come from somewhere!

[tattooedmonk]

I believe that this is one of the problems that others have with SD , that none of the history or lineage can be traced back to whom it was said to come from and where, other than GMT,GGMICM, and Indonesia.

This is especially difficult to others that have verifiable lineages, But we also have to keep in mind that these lineages are only as accurate, and factual as the people that have kept them.

If some substantial proof was found or revealed to all of us it would make things easier.

I have no reason to doubt that SD history was taught to GMT and how he tells it, but how accurate it is or was at the time is what is questionable.

If I found out that GMT was lying or making stuff up as he went along I would be really surprised. .....

Considering the body of material that is taught in SD, the loose connections that each of the temples/ styles have, outside of the Su Kong Tai Djin Story, I would say there is more fact than fiction.

Being able to prove it is something different.

I have to admit that I have believed because of the actual words that Master Sin has told me personally , but weighing it against what factual info. that is out there and what is common knowledge, it is very difficult.

[brucereiter]

Lets see some more vids.... Please.....

CS

hi ya'all,

chen xin jia 83 tai chi chuan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66uMe_SJILc

leg conditioning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DGQmwT9ycI

beng chuan hsing i 5 roads
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwBQnWd-GJI

enjoy,

bruce

[Judge Pen]

In 1968, grandmaster Ie awarded the tenth-degree black belt and with it the title of grandmaster of Shaolin to Sin Kwang The.
http://www.shaolinlegends.com/articl...ikfnov1987.pdf

In 1976 at the age of 96, he promoted Sin The' to the honary position of tenth-degree black belt and grandmaster of Shaolin. This made Sin The one of the youngest grandmasters on record and left him with the awesome responsibilty of preserving and perpetuating the Shaolin system with all it's accumulated knowledge"
http://www.shaolinlegends.com/articl...egmmam1994.pdf

So which is it, 1976 or 1968?

Actually, the 1994 article says Several years before grandmaster Ie's death in 1976, he promoted Master Sin The' to the honorary position of tenth-degree black belt and grandmaster of Shaolin. 1968 would be "several years" prior to Ie's death.

[Judge Pen]

Masterkiller.....I read those articles and they were good. It's to bad they are biased in that they were written by James Hallaway who happens to be a 5th degree black belt under Sin The'. How can we believe those article to be true when they are written by a Sin The' student?

How can we believe anything you say about your teacher or style since your a student with an obvious bias? Two-way streets, you know.

[Judge Pen]

I'm thinking the misinformation may have been passed on to him. The grand claims could have originated with GM Ie. I've heard grandiose claims are the norm in Indonesian MA schools.

I think you may be right--especially with regard to the lineage prior to Ie. But part of me still would love for a record to turn up that survived the burnings that references the hairy monk. Think how many pages this thread would hit then!

[Judge Pen]

I think everyone has established that SD is a aclectic style. Lets move on... We all know what we have and dont have. I can prove my Shaolin lineage through documentation back to Hui Kai Monk. With this said, my lineage from Hui Kai Monk to his elders have been documented for centuries. So, I have absolutely "No" reservation at all with using my Shaolin kungfu lineage and name. Now, I dont claim to be a Shaolin monk, I'm not and dont practice Chan. See my point?

This is my point. SD is SD, "WAY OF SHAOLIN" not "WAY OF SHAOLIN KUNG FU". Look at the name SD. I may not fully agree with SD'S claims on having and teaching the final version of Fukien Shaolin Temple Kung Fu due to them not having 95% of the material I have from the Fukien Temple era (which were passed to me from my sifu - Cai Yingxia which was passed to him from Zhuang Zi Shen, which was passed to him by Zheng Yi Shan, which was passed to him from Hui Kai Monk of the Fukien Shaolin Temple) that they refer to. I refer to the same era/s in my lineage history... However, I do know the Fukien Temple's lineage and the styles taught within that particular era...????.... Nonetheless, I welcome the SD members always. Lets move on regardless of our opinions on what is or should be... Plus, I want to see some more SD vids, lol.... I find them interesting. Some SD seem to move pretty fluid, we as others, well... But, this is true with any style... Lets see some more vids.... Please.....

CS

CS, you're a class act. I wish every student and teacher of CMA displayed a grain of your humility and politeness on this thread. There are many here that could learn a lot from how you conduct yourself.

[Toby]

beng chuan hsing i 5 roads
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwBQnWd-GJI

I preferred your earlier version . Just MHO of course. I'd comment in the thread but it'd be easier in person and you'll be in my neck of the woods soon. Remember I'm happy to meet up if we've both got the time, just shoot me an email ...

[Baqualin]

hi ya'all,

chen xin jia 83 tai chi chuan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66uMe_SJILc

NICE really nice Bruce

leg conditioning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DGQmwT9ycI

beng chuan hsing i 5 roads
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwBQnWd-GJI

I like this one better than your earlier version...punches are a lot more powerful and your foward motion is better...just keep thinking from the spine

enjoy,

bruce

jkje;gnh;nbe;geu;vnerje

[Toby]

I like this one better than your earlier version...punches are a lot more powerful ...

Bruce scares me. He's roughly the same size as my teacher, considerably bigger than me. I think anything he does would be powerful.

OK, in the interests of discussion, why is your stance so narrow finishing each step? That's very different to what you did before. Is that a conscious thing/is there a reason?

And you emphasize the striking hand - what's your intent with your other hand? It seems to pull back. Is that what you're trying to do?

You'd still cream me. If you came at me like that, I'd need some fancy footwork to avoid being pummeled.

[Citong Shifu]

hi ya'all,

chen xin jia 83 tai chi chuan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66uMe_SJILc

leg conditioning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DGQmwT9ycI

beng chuan hsing i 5 roads
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwBQnWd-GJI

enjoy,

bruce

Why, thank you SDiscool!

[Citong Shifu]

CS, you're a class act. I wish every student and teacher of CMA displayed a grain of your humility and politeness on this thread. There are many here that could learn a lot from how you conduct yourself.

JP,
Ummmm, was that sarcasm or sincere . Sorry for asking, but this thread has rebounded in so many ways that sometimes its hard to tell. If sincere, thank you! I beleieve that its very difficult to pin point our exact lineage/history. Our elders (old time masters) were very secretive. Many things were not recored due to protection of the disciples and other masters from government slayings, clan mass murders, or just survival of the art/legacy for whatever reason/s. Some did make or kept accurate records that were passed through the generations which either were lost in time, destroyed, or eventually surfaced... We see more documentation on style lineage/history/disciple, etc in our modern time, well at least the last 50 years or so... This is mainly due to times are different now and we wont be punished or killed for our association or affiliation with said teacher,school, or style... Also, more written documentation has surfaced since CMA have made there way to America and Europe where they can be highlighted without recourse... Of course, there have been those who have abused this by adding or taking out names or timelines to suit the reputation and styles, with intentions of over shadowing the other arts... Anyway, I'm sure everyone gets my point here. Histories and lineage's are becoming more abundant now and will continue to in the future...

I dont know ST, never met him. I'm sure he's a good person. Furthermore, I'm sure he gives credit were credits due... I dont have time to be smug. I'd rather take that time and develop my art and skill. I like to see other arts and there expressions. Shaolin philosophy teaches us not to define and keep the mind open.

Take care.
CS