What has happened to the 'Rattan Rings'?

[LoneTiger108]

Thats not VT, lets establish that this is stylized using VT hands and sold as a product by the teacher, self defence using rings that you pick up from a broken bar stool you just broke over a guys head for spilling your beer...thats where the rings came from isnt it ?
or does she carry them everywhere ?
I like the circle the wagons approach to an circling enemy carrying banners , classic enrollment / movie stuff for shows and demo's , nice one !
Im not sure whats going on at the dummy , but no dummy desreves to be gang attacked
funny video !

Nice to know you found the clip funny lol! And I thought we had a good discussion going on here??!! I can't ell you how many times I've heard the 'thats not Wing Chun' comment before and it saddens me to hear it all again. Open your eyes...

A Wong Shun Leung student too! I thought you guys really knew your stuff! Maybe you should chat with some UK guys before we go any further!

[k gledhill]

If others have said the same ....Vt is easy to copy on the surface, the chinese call it skin & hair style....search for the bones, walk on......Im only saying what I see, I lived in the UK for 15 years I know whats there.

[LoneTiger108]

If others have said the same ....Vt is easy to copy on the surface, the chinese call it skin & hair style....search for the bones, walk on......Im only saying what I see, I lived in the UK for 15 years I know whats there.

That's exactly my point, you 'say what you see', maybe without really knowing what you're looking 'at' let alone 'for'. It's a common misconception by many Wing Chun students when they view another branch, but honestly, I'd have to ask if you met or trained with any of the Lee Shing Family while you were in the UK? Most notably the 'Jun Mo School'?

The depressing thing is that I can see what most people are saying in regards to their family, their training methods and ways etc, but there are very few that can see the similarities in our family. Strange that, as we are all the same in structure. After all, we have our forms and weaponry just like everyone else.

Perhaps its more like I can see you, but you can't see me (yet). I hope to be able to discuss these issues k, as I work with a WSL Student every day and it has taken a while for us to understand eachother too! I have a huge amount of respect for his family as I do for others.

Shame you don't feel any respect in this way...

[donbdc]

I liked it> I have never seen anything like it before. IT reminded me more of the bagua deer horn knives than anything else. Looks like fun. Thanks for having the guts to post a video!

Keep it up
Don

[southernkf]

It's strange that this clip has only recently been added to my Sifu's website, so I thought that you could all be the first to see it! So many crazy memories still exist in my mind and this was a cherished time.

It is a collection of old training days at his hall in North London, and if you wait long enough you will see how we used to use a 'pair' of Rattan Rings as a pre-cursor and complimentary to the knives...

Be honest! let me know what you think!

http://www.junmo.co.uk/

Hi LoneTiger108,

Thanks for sharing. I saw a little of the ring near the end where it is used against the pole, I have never seen any wing chun use it like that before. Usually it is used as a training aid rather than a weapon when demo'd. Of course I don't have the ring in my training so perhaps that is only what I saw. LOL.

As for that usage of the ring, it wouldn't be very benifical in the wing chun I do. We take a different approach in our training which dictates we would have to apply the rings differently than what was shown here. My concern if I used them would be the lack of control on the round surface.

In any case, please don't infer that I am judging the rings you guys do, that isn't my intent. Rather I am just relating them to my wing chun. It was cool to see your usage of the rings as well as other stuff. I don't recall Lee Shing as well as I ought to. He is from the Yip Man line, right? Could you elaborate on his background? I found the usage of the rings, flags, and dummy to be interesting and different from other wing chun people. I am just currious about those methods and how they relate to Yip Man.

[k gledhill]

That's exactly my point, you 'say what you see', maybe without really knowing what you're looking 'at' let alone 'for'. It's a common misconception by many Wing Chun students when they view another branch, but honestly, I'd have to ask if you met or trained with any of the Lee Shing Family while you were in the UK? Most notably the 'Jun Mo School'?

The depressing thing is that I can see what most people are saying in regards to their family, their training methods and ways etc, but there are very few that can see the similarities in our family. Strange that, as we are all the same in structure. After all, we have our forms and weaponry just like everyone else.

Perhaps its more like I can see you, but you can't see me (yet). I hope to be able to discuss these issues k, as I work with a WSL Student every day and it has taken a while for us to understand eachother too! I have a huge amount of respect for his family as I do for others.

Shame you don't feel any respect in this way...

its a reality you will face one day, i wouldnt tell the emperor he was wearing clothes either ...maybe I am giving you more respect than you realise right now....a few years on maybe ...?? walk on p.s I know the lee shing family stuff very well....

[Nick Forrer]

Nice to know you found the clip funny lol! And I thought we had a good discussion going on here??!! I can't ell you how many times I've heard the 'thats not Wing Chun' comment before and it saddens me to hear it all again. Open your eyes...

A Wong Shun Leung student too! I thought you guys really knew your stuff! Maybe you should chat with some UK guys before we go any further!

You asked for honest feedback...why complain when its not to your liking? Demo looked silly to me too. Then again there maybe is, as you protest, more to it than meets the eye but we can only go off whats shown. Perhaps you can explain the tag team dummy for instance. And yes I do have plenty of experience with lee shing family WCK.

[LoneTiger108]

It was cool to see your usage of the rings as well as other stuff. I don't recall Lee Shing as well as I ought to. He is from the Yip Man line, right? Could you elaborate on his background? I found the usage of the rings, flags, and dummy to be interesting and different from other wing chun people. I am just currious about those methods and how they relate to Yip Man.

I selected your post to quote from southernkf as I see similar questions from other users here. In answer to your question, yes Lee Shing was the European Representative of the Yip Man Martial Art Athletic Association, hand selected by Yip Man himself. He arrived in London in 1956 and pretty much taught Wing Chun here until he died in 1991. For a thorough look into his background, I would always recommend Uncle Joseph Lee's site:

http://www.josephleewingchun.com/LeeShing.jsp

I'm not sure I understand the next point though, as to how all this stuff relates to Yip Man. Obviously we are connected to him, but I can't say that Lee Shing was his 'student', but more like an 'old friend', as Lee shing was formerly not really aligned to any 'one sifu'. He was a collector of Martial knowledge, had been since a child, so he passed through everybody at the time and finalized his studies with Yip Man before leaving Hong Kong.

Other comments have asked questions like 'explain the tag team dummy' and even comparing us to the Wild West lol! I hope everybody doesn't think I'm 'complaining' about having these comments, because I'm not. I am just bored of hearing them! I think I should also mention that my Sifu established his Jun Mo School back in 1978, and has never really stopped training people. He has had many generations go through his hands and has adjusted training to suit the requirements of the time. This doesn't mean its not Wing Chun does it? Has nobody been attacked by three WC students at once? (who have been trained in strategy!)

We also opened The Millennium Dome (turned out to be a political disaster I know, but the night was superb!) with a 30 strong Flag Troupe and were selected by the Queen herself to 'stand guard' around the Royal Box! This resulted in us entering Buckingham Palace grounds for her Golden Jubilee, so it's not as if Lee Shing isn't known in the UK! But again, I'm now taking the thread off its subject lol!

The Rattan Ring is a 'unique' tool, linking with 'Cha'an Buddhism' and has an extensive Military History (it is a shield). The perfect compliment to the stick actually (straight line/circular line) and should not be underestimated just because you have never used one before or can not even hold one. In my later years it also doubled up as a casing for my knives. This may explain why we do what we do, as I was trained as a 'cultural student', following the tradition of my only Wing Chun teacher...

[southernkf]

Hi,

Thanks for the info. You answered my question about Yip Man relation just fine. I didn't know Yip Man sent people as representatives to different places, or even one. It is interesting to piece together different parts of his life. Where did Lee Shing collect his wing chun from if Yip Man wasn't really his teacher? I'll check out that web site and maybe that will answer some questions.

I peaked at the other thread about Lee Shing (which I'll read later cause it probably answers all my questions) and found he taught Alan Lamb. I was wondering why Lee Shing's name was so familar, but I couldn't place it.

As for the ring, I am not sure how others view it, but I don't dismiss it. Perhaps I under estimate it cause I don't have any real knowledge of it's use. Is it soley used as a weapon or is it also used as a training aid? Other people tend to out their hands inside of it and do technqiues. It seems to provide some resistance or a bit of training wheels for them. And did the weapon portion actually come through Yip Man or another form of wing chun? It is interestesting as I havn't seen it. The closest I can think of is some of those circular blades with pointy things used in some styles and found in magazines.

Anyways, thanks for the info

[LoneTiger108]

In light of a previous discussion I was having on another thread, I thought that this topic could do with more input from people who have actually used a rattan ring in their training.

Anyone?

[donbdc]

Anything in particular about the rings. I used them today w/ a student. We did loy and ngoy kwan sau as well as gahnjom w/ Chau mah foot work. Then we did the same drill on the dummy. It was very useful in developing body unity.

[k gledhill]

we dont fight in those shapes you mention, just drills , fighting isnt kwan sau etc....fantasy , did i say that ? think about it, why fight 1 arm with your 2 in kwan...why stand in front of someone, recieve them wih 2arms like chisao AND turn away only to turn back and hit them ...fantasy based chi-sao bs ... my god I sound like dale!
you have to able to fight people who can fight er, really well aarghh !! i sound like T must resist...

[donbdc]

You don't fight in Kwan sau? So if some one pulls your arm yoe wouldn't bower their power and Tan w/ the other hand to block a punch. Its a great technique for a pull punch response. I don't think you understand it.

[UKBBC]

the gahn-jam sau is a useful trap for a telegraphed round kick

[k gledhill]

classic case of trying to use training shapes to fight with as chi-sao drills have us believe....
first let me say there is no limit, you can do whatever you want anytime .....BUT we dont use these shapes like you say simply because its redundant to the idea behind the shapes....we dont turn away from the attack to use force etc...we dont give 2 extended arms ....why use 2 against 1...I know exactly what your attemting to use....but do you know what Im trying to explain.....stylized cr&p.....I used to think like that too, me froggy too , not mr knowitall ....

Chisao isnt how we fight ....dont fall into the rolling 2 arms a guy comes at you then do KWAN SAO !! it only works because your both doing a drill that is set up for random , mutual exchanges to eitherside of your body....it isnt to do kwan sao....common error. we dont do kwan sao to the dummy either...its en passant to a rotation leading into and out of the 'photo' opportunity that Kwan sao has become.... like attacking by sticking ferociously , kwan is just as deadly I sound more like dale & T every post...try kwan on Dale one day I dare you you'll be human origami quicker than you can say kwa!...achk!...tap, tap, tap