Efficiency and Effectiveness

[Knifefighter]

As for your Tuna style comment, you are a child poking fun at what you will never understand...... until you are 70 years old and can no longer "roll".

How old are you?
What makes you think you have a clue about what someone can or cannot do when he gets older?

[Ronin maximus]

have you started this same debate to say the same things you always say?

I think you enjoy firing people up and derive some kind of sick pleasure from it.

Whatever I, or anyone else say you will always make fun of .
As I said in the "Chi Vampirism" thread (which you should read)
there are 2 sides to every coin.

ANYONE who tries to debate with you is a fool (myself included, 'cause I fell into your trap again) 'cause you're like a born again Christian or a Jehovah's witness who can only see one way.
And then you cover your ears and go "LALALALALA, I can't hear you!"



PLEASE, everyone, ignore this guy when he starts this crap again!!!!
'cause he's like a broken record and will just keep steering the conversations to his own satisfaction.

[rogue]

That post is referencing use of force for law enforecement or someone who is using a firearm (not defending empty-handed against one) to defend himself.

Of course MMA does not prepare you for using a firearm.

However, if one ends up in a hand-to hand struggle for control of the firearm, the guy with MMA training is going to have an advantage over the CMA trained guy who is not used to doing full force grappling.

No it's not aimed at LEOs, it is aimed at the civilian and is similar to what I've been taught. Like I said, here where I live I have to assume that the other person can be carrying concealed.

When it comes to weapons retention there are a lot of things that a MMA may do out of habit that will get him killed. Sorry but the MMA fairy can't wave his magic wand and give you skills, habits and knowledge for things that you have not trained. You also have to ask what happened that you are now in a struggle for control of your weapon. It happens but did you do something super stupid?

[Ronin maximus]

How old are you?
What makes you think you have a clue about what someone can or cannot do when he gets older?

I'm 40 and about to have double hip replacement, so "rolling" is over for me already.

[Knifefighter]

I'm 40 and about to have double hip replacement, so "rolling" is over for me already.

Don't you find it hypocritical that, as CMA guy at age 40, you are already having to have double hip replacement and are going on about what MMA guys are going to do at 70 when they can no longer roll?

[Black Jack II]

Knife,

You said-

Have you fought a well-trained MMA fighter in an MMA bout?

If not, then you probably don't have a clue about how much the other guy is trying to take you out and what his abilities are to do so.-

To answer your question bro, no I have not. But its not the same man. The attacker is still not fully resisting as he is limited to certain concepts, viewpoints and tools once he is in the ring. In MMA you have rules, you have towl men, you have refs, you have medics, you are choosing to be in that situation. That makes the enviroment a different issue and by enviroment its not just the physical enviroment which is different but its the emotional enviroment as well.

I am not saying the difference is not better by alive training. I think alive training is really-really important. Its just that the guy in the mma ring can not be compared in a couple of issues to the career criminal or crazed skell on the street trying to break into your house.

[Knifefighter]

When it comes to weapons retention there are a lot of things that a MMA may do out of habit that will get him killed. Sorry but the MMA fairy can't wave his magic wand and give you skills, habits and knowledge for things that you have not trained.

Exactly... and that is what the MMA model is all about. Specificity of training. Take the same model and apply it to self-defense and weapons retention/usage.

You also have to ask what happened that you are now in a struggle for control of your weapon. It happens but did you do something super stupid?

I'm guessing it means you didn't have your weapon with you and the struggle is for his weapon.

[Black Jack II]

exactly... and that is what the MMA model is all about. Specificity of training. Take the same model and apply it to self-defense and weapons retention/usage-

This makes perfect sense. You don't have to be combative sport MMA to do this though. A number of jkd/combative style schools take that viewpoint in practice.

[Knifefighter]

I am not saying the difference is not better by alive training. I think alive training is really-really important. Its just that the guy in the mma ring can not be compared in a couple of issues to the career criminal or crazed skell on the street or the one breaking into your house.

Sure they are different.

In some respects the MMA fighter is tougher to beat. The MMA fighter is almost always fully conditioned, technically knowledgeable, strong, and prepared for a long battle.

There are also rules and a ref to limit what you can do to him. You are not allowed to use weapons against him... you cannot bite him... you have to let him go if he taps... you cannot kill him.

[Black Jack II]

In some respects the MMA fighter is tougher to beat. The MMA fighter is almost always fully conditioned, technically knowledgeable, strong, and prepared for a long battle.-

If I may knife, here is a difference from the other side.

The criminal may not be full conditioned because and here is the point. He does not want a long battle nor does he plan for one. He plans for a short, brutal, to the point confrontation, which ever way gets him to his goal the fastest.

As for technically knowledeable, you can't say that, as its a different type of knowledge due to a different type of enviroment, its not about arm bars or ring strategy to this guy, this guy may be a dumb ass in a lot of respects but in this section he may be a genius in setting people up. To this type of charater its about putting himself in the best position to take out his target with the least risk to himself due to jail.

[Charles T Rose]

Just a note on Helio Gracie...any training he has done in the last 60 yrs has been playing with his sons and family,not grinding it out on the mat down at the local dojo with the 20somethings.

[Knifefighter]

Just a note on Helio Gracie...any training he has done in the last 60 yrs has been playing with his sons and family,not grinding it out on the mat down at the local dojo with the 20somethings.

Just a note for people who post about Helio, but really don't have a clue about what he has done...

When I was training at the Torrance Gracie academy, he was in his late 70's.

Most of the guys that he was handling with ease were in their 20's.

[rogue]

I'm guessing it means you didn't have your weapon with you and the struggle is for his weapon.

Could be or I couldn't get to it, and that opens up the same can of worms with weapons retention but just in reverse.

[Fu-Pow]

Wow what a tangent....I especially liked the snake argument...not!

[msg]

people that are bringing up pulling a gun are pretty dumb .it takes a weak and scared person afraid to get beat up to pull a gun anybody can pull a trigger all it takes is fear it take no training thats the most weakest thing anybody can do so even talking about it is pretty lame