Sin The' admits in court he made it all up.

[Drake]

It's like watching Japanese tourists trying to be cowboys.

Which after the initial shock, I think is actually pretty cool in the end.

[Lucas]

Drake, if you havn't yet, you should totally watch Sukiyaki Western Django.

[taai gihk yahn]

Bill Leonard's comments as posted on the Shaolin-Do Association's facebook page:


http://goo.gl/EYDo8

quite a missive; the Apologist drinks long and deep from the communal Kool Aide...

[LaterthanNever]

"So how does that mean that I, as a white guy, view martial arts as a weird fetish to get off on, but you, as an asian man, view it out of respect?"

There are a few things going on here Judge:

1.) White..Asian..it doesn't matter. Sin Kwang The is of Asian extraction yet he certainly does not bring respect to the martial arts in the eyes of most of the opponents of his claims.

2.) If it hasn't settled in by now..it's when someone like Sin Kwang makes claims about the Shaolin temple and it's simply a matter of CONTACTING the actual temple that is still in existence and they are like "Huh? No such Grandmaster such as Su Kong Dai Djin",etc...and he(Sin Kwang) STILL sticks by such blatant falsehoods that there becomes a real issue.

3.) The longer a claim continues to exist which can be easily refuted..the most dishonor it heaps on Sin Kwang's shoulders. And this came to the proverbial head when the guy admits in court that he made his material up! Higher forms, lower forms..doesn't matter. Its bad enough he claims that his forms are questionable..but his other claims about Wolf face,etc. are the thing which(if some had their say in the matter) would ban Sin Kwang from even walking on the Shaolin temple grounds again.

[Yao Sing]

Bill Leonard's comments as posted on the Shaolin-Do Association's facebook page:


http://goo.gl/EYDo8

"When Grandmaster Thé began to teach in this country, he was aware that the long, complex forms of classical Shaolin would be difficult for the students to learn without some background training."

Ok, questions -

What became of the basic material SKT learned when he started?

Why was it neccessary for him to create beginner material?

Is SKT saying that us westerners are not evolved enough to handle such complex material without preliminary baby steps the he did not need?

How is it other Shaolin teachers are able to teach beginners without making up material?

[taai gihk yahn]

this, from the Wikipedia page, clearly written by a SD representative, should really tell u all:

"2007 – Grandmaster Sin Thé first teaches out Liu Xing Quan in Lexington, KY. He reveals that the Yang component is the final touches of Xing Yi system, hidden by the temple for hundreds of years because it involves the use of even greater and more complicated series of pressure point strikes. The Yin component is actually the top form of the Eagle Claw system and the first form of the Golden Snake style, which is his specialty.[citation needed] It also is the first style to really incorporate linked fa jin striking, whereas styles such as Chen-style t'ai chi ch'uan, Xingyiquan, and Baguazhang tend to use singular or dual fa jin strikes. Liu Xing routinely uses chains of eleven or more fa jin strikes to pressure points in series.[citation needed]"

if this heap of steaming doggie poo-poo, especially the last bit, doesn't simply scream BS fraud, I don't know what does...

[taai gihk yahn]

"When Grandmaster Thé began to teach in this country, he was aware that the long, complex forms of classical Shaolin would be difficult for the students to learn without some background training."

Ok, questions -

What became of the basic material SKT learned when he started?

Why was it neccessary for him to create beginner material?

Is SKT saying that us westerners are not evolved enough to handle such complex material without preliminary baby steps the he did not need?

How is it other Shaolin teachers are able to teach beginners without making up material?

enough with logic and reason; these things clearly have no place in a discussion of this nature;

[Judge Pen]

"So how does that mean that I, as a white guy, view martial arts as a weird fetish to get off on, but you, as an asian man, view it out of respect?"

There are a few things going on here Judge:

1.) White..Asian..it doesn't matter. Sin Kwang The is of Asian extraction yet he certainly does not bring respect to the martial arts in the eyes of most of the opponents of his claims.

2.) If it hasn't settled in by now..it's when someone like Sin Kwang makes claims about the Shaolin temple and it's simply a matter of CONTACTING the actual temple that is still in existence and they are like "Huh? No such Grandmaster such as Su Kong Dai Djin",etc...and he(Sin Kwang) STILL sticks by such blatant falsehoods that there becomes a real issue.

3.) The longer a claim continues to exist which can be easily refuted..the most dishonor it heaps on Sin Kwang's shoulders. And this came to the proverbial head when the guy admits in court that he made his material up! Higher forms, lower forms..doesn't matter. Its bad enough he claims that his forms are questionable..but his other claims about Wolf face,etc. are the thing which(if some had their say in the matter) would ban Sin Kwang from even walking on the Shaolin temple grounds again.

I'm not defending what Sin The admitted to in the deposition. I guess people are making me guilty by association because I trained in that art despite the fact that I focused on the martial intent behind the moves despite the origins and spent countless hours having respectful conversations about all of the criticisms here on the forum.

What rubbed me the wrong way about bwang's posts is he was making it a racial thing. That white people see martial arts as a fetish, but that only asian men like him really get the cultural relevance of martial arts. That's BS and I was calling him on it. But again, I know he's a troll and likes stirring the pot on these issues.

[bawang]

It's like watching Japanese tourists trying to be cowboys.

Which after the initial shock, I think is actually pretty cool in the end.

its like those japanese kids that dress up as nazis.

[Lucas]

"When Grandmaster Thé began to teach in this country, he was aware that the long, complex forms of classical Shaolin would be difficult for the students to learn without some background training."

lol@ that. xiao hong quan is pretty easy to teach beginners...

[bawang]

once again another lie.

legit kung fu has legit beginner forms, like five elements, 4 gates, 8 gates. etc.

[LaterthanNever]

Judge Pen,

See what I wrote for #2. If it's so easy to see what is known and verifyable about the Shaolin temple and the kung fu which had it's true genesis there and it's verifiable by both written historical documents..

AND...

You still choose to go with a guy who chooses to spread such fallacies..

It's like trying to argue with the Lyndon Larouche lackeys who put posters up of whoever is president of the US at the time with a little Hitler moustache and spread all sorts of fallacies about whoever the president may be. Pretty much anyone with a pulse and the ability to click a mouse on a laptop can verify that the "Larouche pac" folks are believing one helluva delusion.

Why not do YOURSELF favor and study some actual Shaolin kung fu(Northern Shaolin, Hung Kuen, Choy Li Fut, Wing Chun..whatever..but stop wasting your time!)

[bawang]

shaolin temple is the birthplace of chan buddhism. it demands the same respect as the temple mount, the vatican, or mecca. this is what those guys refuse to accept.

[Judge Pen]

Judge Pen,

See what I wrote for #2. If it's so easy to see what is known and verifyable about the Shaolin temple and the kung fu which had it's true genesis there and it's verifiable by both written historical documents..

AND...

You still choose to go with a guy who chooses to spread such fallacies..

It's like trying to argue with the Lyndon Larouche lackeys who put posters up of whoever is president of the US at the time with a little Hitler moustache and spread all sorts of fallacies about whoever the president may be. Pretty much anyone with a pulse and the ability to click a mouse on a laptop can verify that the "Larouche pac" folks are believing one helluva delusion.

Why not do YOURSELF favor and study some actual Shaolin kung fu(Northern Shaolin, Hung Kuen, Choy Li Fut, Wing Chun..whatever..but stop wasting your time!)

You haven't been reading my posts. 1. I havent' trained in SD since 2009. 2. I started training in 1989 when I was 14. 3. At that time there were only three schools in my area to chose from and SD was the best option (still would be if I were to evaluate them knowing what I know now). When I started training, we never really discused lineage or history, just technique, form and strategy. I stayed because I could take what I learned and could apply it. I stopped because I got old and busy with work and family. I do not condone lies, but I was more concerned with what I put into the training, and what I could get out of it.

Would I have been a better martial artist had I the opportunity to train at a different school? Maybe, but I'll never know. I can say that I never really relied on any misrepresentations to motivate or encourage my training. But I know people that did and I feel worse for them (especially those that try to make a living teaching SD).

[Judge Pen]

shaolin temple is the birthplace of chan buddhism. it demands the same respect as the temple mount, the vatican, or mecca. this is what those guys refuse to accept.

I just don't see your point that by I studied an art that claimed, falsey it seems, origins to a shaolin temple (a southern temple that may not have even existed) I am being disrespectful to one's religion (especially when I was more concerned with the practice of the art as opposed to its lineage). It's not like I made up the stories myself. Do you have to practice chan buddhism to be a respectful martial artist?