The Pole

[BPWT]

Oh what's this? That other LT guy said LT charged respectable prices

'Location, Location, Location,' as the saying goes

[Yoshiyahu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U2crnECuC8

[LoneTiger108]

Wasn't this covered in another thread?

The family probably have a form of sorts but nothing too new anymore but definitely something worth looking into. Think this was one of Sergios promotions?? But maybe someone else can chime in...

[Paddington]

Regarding the pole form more generally, has any one found much import to double laps and arm and body control of the opponent? I was practicing something recently and many of the movements from the pole cropped up, tis why I ask..

[LoneTiger108]

Regarding the pole form more generally, has any one found much import to double laps and arm and body control of the opponent? I was practicing something recently and many of the movements from the pole cropped up, tis why I ask..

The pole holds many little secrets regarding any manipulation method like Lapsau but it may depends on what and how you learn the pole.

[Eric_H]

Weng Chun is not Wing Chun.

[Paddington]

The pole holds many little secrets regarding any manipulation method like Lapsau but it may depends on what and how you learn the pole.

Well I found it quite effective. It was a bit scary though, lots of potential for serious injuries when you have the arm lined up along the jic seen and then apply a technique into the opponents center along that line. Just a tiny bit of rotational and fa jing energy was enough to make my training partner wince.

[KPM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U2crnECuC8

This is very good stuff! Weng Chun rather than Wing Chun, as has been already stated, but I think most of us could learn a lot from this clip alone. I've found that Wing Chun's pole form varies quite a bit even within different Ip Man lineages. And the various versions of Ip Man's pole form use the square horse, cat stance, etc. So there are a lot of similarities. Unlike the previous comment, I don' find that the body mechanics used in Wing Chun pole and Weng Chun pole are really all that different. The body mechanics used in the empty hand phase are certainly different. But the pole not so much. If anything, Wing Chun pole is more like Weng Chun's empty hand mechanics that it is like Wing Chun's empty hand mechanics!

[LoneTiger108]

This is very good stuff! Weng Chun rather than Wing Chun, as has been already stated, but I think most of us could learn a lot from this clip alone. I've found that Wing Chun's pole form varies quite a bit even within different Ip Man lineages.

What are we to learn from this clip alone? How to copy things we do not know? lol!

It seems odd to me that this kind of old B&W clip is put in high regard even though it has very little, if anything, to do with the Wing Chun system (according to most) and yet a clip of my own Sigung practising his pole is slammed for being 'his own invention', and he was one of the first representatives of Ip Man in Europe alongside guys like Lok Yiu who was also known as 'King of the stick'!

Maybe I'm just a bit jealous of this Tang Yik lineage but the acceptance and praise for it just don't make sense to me at all considering...

[BPWT]

I missed the clip of your Sigung's pole form. Could you post a link?

[LoneTiger108]

I missed the clip of your Sigung's pole form. Could you post a link?

There isn't a 'full' set available anywhere online, only small scenes were included in a promotional DVD advert

http://youtu.be/3dD6_7mzAQs

Austin Goh demos have been out there for years and one of Joe Lees guys has put stuff out more recently, and both are a little different from eachother and from my own.

[KPM]

What are we to learn from this clip alone? How to copy things we do not know? lol!

---We see some very nimble stepping and some obvious power generation with a long weapon. Seeing it done helps one know what is possible. From a Ip Man WCK perspective, we see things that look like an extension of what we already do, opening up some additional possibilities for application.

It seems odd to me that this kind of old B&W clip is put in high regard even though it has very little, if anything, to do with the Wing Chun system (according to most)

---Seems that most posting here see it as having something to do with WCK!

and yet a clip of my own Sigung practising his pole is slammed for being 'his own invention', and he was one of the first representatives of Ip Man in Europe alongside guys like Lok Yiu who was also known as 'King of the stick'!

---Sorry. I hadn't seen the clip of your Sigung before. But I checked out the clip you posted here. To me it looked like a pretty basic drill. Not nearly as long or as in-depth as the clip of Tang Yik. I also did not see the obvious power and "snap" as in the Tang Yik video. And I'll note that Ip Man Wing Chun does not strike with the butt of the pole or twirl it around!

Maybe I'm just a bit jealous of this Tang Yik lineage but the acceptance and praise for it just don't make sense to me at all considering...

---Doesn't make sense??? Its a clip of a well-know master showing an obvious level of high skill. Why wouldn't it get high praise?

[LoneTiger108]

We see some very nimble stepping and some obvious power generation with a long weapon. Seeing it done helps one know what is possible. From a Ip Man WCK perspective, we see things that look like an extension of what we already do, opening up some additional possibilities for application.

Okay. You see a connection to the Ip Man pole in what they do and you do, as do I. And I also see the connection of what I have seen in my own lineage too.

But out of interest, how does your training utilize this huen gwan method seen in the Tang Yik set??

http://youtu.be/_U2crnECuC8?t=1m7s

This is the 'nimble footwork' you are talking about? This is also very common in basic baat gwa gwan practise, something that isn't even commonly considered to be within Wing Chun pole especially from Ip Man

So, please show me ANY Ip family that 'use' this mobility method in empty hand training like you are suggesting. I know where it is in my own training so please share your experience.

I hadn't seen the clip of your Sigung before. But I checked out the clip you posted here. To me it looked like a pretty basic drill. Not nearly as long or as in-depth as the clip of Tang Yik.

As I have said, if you're talking of my Sigung in his clip, he is showing 2 sets of his Wing Chun pole. We have 7 sets just as most do in Ip Man Wing Chun. Some students of Joe Lee even have other completely different forms entirely but I digress...

I also did not see the obvious power and "snap" as in the Tang Yik video. And I'll note that Ip Man Wing Chun does not strike with the butt of the pole or twirl it around!

My Sigung was over 60 in his clip and the set as he played it in the clip is at a very basic level with a solid staff, no flex as this was all that was available to him on the day!

You lose my interest with the last part of your comment. I have heard the twirling thing so much and even when I mention we are practising stick/cudgel plays I am still hearing it lol! And you do not use your butt?? Shame on you!

All cudgel was a pre-cursor for me to using the long pole. Both have different methods and many similarities too. I am only a little guy so it helped to build me up and prepare for more strenuous conditioning. These type of sets too are generally missing from common Wing Chun pole forms, and I see quite a few of them in the Tang Yik clip

[Grumblegeezer]

This is very good stuff! Weng Chun rather than Wing Chun, as has been already stated, but ...I don' find that the body mechanics used in Wing Chun pole and Weng Chun pole are really all that different.

I'd have to agree. In fact I find more similarity between this and the WT pole movements I learned than I do with the Austin Goh stuff posted.

If there is any truth to the stories attributing the WC/VT/WT long pole to a collaboration between Leung Yee Tai and Wong Wah Bo on the "red boat", then the pole movements said to have come from Chi Shin would be the one common point between the Wing Tsun and Weng Tsun sytems.

[guy b.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U2crnECuC8

Very good pole, wing chun or not