it depends. if you learn traditional TKD under a good instructor, its a good self-defense. if you learn modern TKD with a good instructor, its not the best. If you learn non-traditional sports TKD, you're going to be a POWERFUL agressor, but your defense will be ****ty.
trust me. I know like 5 korean tkd stylists who are totally bad-ass even with only 2 years of experience and they can totally crush anything, but once you get on their case, they crumble.
I have been corrected in regards to fighting style by an Internalist...and could even be corrected by others...that is one point that helps support the fact that it is about people and not styles....
Prior to being corrected myself, and even now, I have to re-train TKD (having privately studied off and on for over 20 years)students, and many other External or Hard styles as to better fighting methods...
There is nothing wrong with the style, just the way the individuals are being taught to fight or move or fall or block, etc...many times they come to me and say that earning rank no longer counts (this is the older people who practice both TKD and Karate based systems I am referring to now, ranging anywhere from white belt up to black belt) or that what they do does not reflect the true fighter that they know they can be.
This is a sad point people, but nonetheless, the style is still the most popular next to Taijiquan or rather T'ai Ch'i(since most of them do not practice the striking methods properly, if at all).
...so Ralek, to say your opinion is based upon 1 fight against a [Taijiquan]--probably just a Tai'Chi Instructor in all reality rather than a legitimate Fighting Taijiquan Instructor(there are different flavors of Taijiquan out there...do not be fooled by imitations, for if a person does not teach the complete system of Original Yang, then they are not the real thing in regards to Real Taijiquan)
...if you were to use the scientific method, along with simple statistics, then you would have to pool together at least 100 instructors from the Original Yang style(not anything else), and then at least 50 of each of their highest ranking students (this gives you a good sample size)...and then if your margin of error was at .05, and you won 97 percent of all the matches, then perhaps (though not specifically --even at this point) one could say that you are better than the average Taijiquan practitioner...
This still would not reflect on the style itself...
It just proves that you are a better fighter, or that they were not...
Since the techniques used could have been from any source, and the training methods would have varied, and the personal attitudes would have been different in regards to challenge matches, and so on...
The variables in this case quickly add up, and turn out to be too numerous -- to just include into a broad statement of if you horse-whipped one or even two or even three, that the style is useless , type of thinking.
People that win challenge matches do not necessarily prove that their style is better, just that the opponent they fought at that moment was not on the same plateau of training or committment, agility, health, etc...
...in a nutshell, sweeping statements about people, especially the Martial Art they practice, are just not good...such statements simply do not have the clout to be backed up...
THREAD TOPIC
After practicing with other Instructors and students over the past 20 years, I have met many good fighters, but for every one that is good there are thousands that are not, and this is more than likely due to poor training methods. I have found that for TKD to improve just slightly, and without going Internal, thus maintaining their roots,
TKD Practitioners:
1. Need to loosen up.
2. Use more knees and lower kicks.
3. Implement more hand strikes to knockout points.
4. Move more from the waist.
5. Practice with Intent against Partners.
6. Turn blocks into striking blocks (as opposed to force meets force, unless of course, the practitioner has toughened up there skin through rigorous old-fashion toughening techniques).
7. Make fighting a part of test.
8. Make Forms just a part of learning, and not Rank Requirements.
9. Allow for older students to not have to kick as high, or do so many spinning kicks, since low kicks work just as well. (ie. Be flexible in regards to different age groups since it is not about being a black belt degree mill or store front for Century MA, etc)
10. Teach students to keep hands closer to body and to not step backwards.
11. The list is endless!!!
"Success is measured not by the end result, but rather with each little step along the way." - Me.
Chris B.
Shogerijutsu HomePage
not to step backwards? what the hell does that mean?
Low kicks are effective, but high kicks aren't all that bad. High kicks being anything above the hip and lower than the shoulder. kicks to the head or shoulder are just plain stupid.
Over and over instructors teach TKD students to backup. Some side stepping or shuffling of the feet to the rear could be fine, but anything else, and the TKD person practically runs backward as they try to kick or punch...due to the sheer force of someone closing in trying to jam their kick.
There are varying types of kicks:
Stomping Kicks: Shin, Knee, Instep, Ankle.
Low kicks: Side of knee, behind knee, side of thigh, rear thigh, anterior thigh, groin, and lower abdomen just below waist.
Middle Kicks or rather trunk level kicks are those from the waist to the shoulders.
High Kicks are those to the neck and head.
... to name a few...
Like you, I believe more emphasis should be on low to middle, indeed.
And yes, even more so, high kicks are just not bright at all.
Now the statement about the kicks was made in reference the older practitioner, since the young kids do not seem to mind at all, and what is expected, rather demanded most of the time, from many instructors out there.
Chris B.
Kwokfist. Muy thai fighters have actually knocked out kung fu fighters with roundhouses to the head for the past several decades.
Jasbourne. You say i rabbit punched him? I don't know about you but i consider a left hook to be a power shot. The left hook is a KO punch. Joe Frazier, the man who kicked Ali's a$$ would knock out everybody with left hooks. Left hook was his trademark KO punch. I hit him so hard that he almost was put unconsious. His legs collapsed. Collapsing legs is a sign of your brain getting rattled. He was still concious but totally out of it. The fight ended witht that punch. Here's an over view of the fight:(Tai chi guy is in stance like the picture of the guy in red. I throw some jabs at him then back off. He follows me back and comes right into a left hook. His legs collapse and he falls. He's still conscious.)
Shog. Since the taijiquan instructor lost he must be fake. If it was the real taijiquan i would have lost for sure! I guess all the kung fu guys who were destroyed in UFC and EFC were fake too.
TKD the real street lethal!!!!
Ralek, I'm talking about generally. Generally, Wing Chun is weak against ground fighting. Grapplers are generally weak against TKDers because good TKDers won't let them get close to them. BJJers are generally weak against... well... nothing. Except maybe Shaolin Long Fist or Muay Thai or any other long-range fighting arts.
TKD is badass, unless of course your instructor is some money-hungry white man.
TKD great sport, bad for realistic fighting.
My best mate & I trained TKD for 2 years. We were well matched at sparring, neither being really better than the other. I went to Muay Thai, he stayed with TKD. After 6 months he couldn't come close to beating me, and in 2 years still hasn't. But he does keep trying :D
It's real easy to sit back behind a computer & say "This style sucks" or whatever. Get out there & try it! Just don't join one of those TKD groups where the instructor introduces himself and immediately begins talking about your yearly fees & when are you going to pay?
Wing Chun kicks A** :cool:
"Through strength, learn gentleness. Through gentleness, strength will prevail"
Taekwondo is as good as anything else if your training supports your desired outcomes. I have a good friend who is a 4th dan WTF stylist and sometimes I can hardly see his legs move. He doesn't much like getting punched in the face but then he hasn't trained for it. Self defence TKD would be fine if it was trained correctly.
BTW Ralek - I once kneed a judo player in the face and knocked out 2 of his teeth, causing him to quit immediately. Maybe I should base my opinion of the grappling arts on that one encounter I had, huh?
Senior Member
Hello, I am very enthusiastic about the martial arts; I study tae kwon do mainly and I learn whatever I can about all other arts as well. I am always trying to learn more about the martial arts and more about my art, tae kwon do.
Tae kwon do based its foundation on shotokan (karate) but incorporated a lot of chinese martial arts into it as well. So I have heard from countless instructors and books. However, I fail to see the resemblence of tae kwon do and chinese martial arts.
Tae kwon do has many techniques from shotokan, but those techniques come from kung fu. So as you can see I'm at a loss here. Does anyone know about the matter?
Membre senior
And welcome to the forum.I think it is fair to say that all martial arts are related to some degree.So if it's true that okinawan karate has chinese influences so does shotokan then why not Tae Kwon Do ? Are you in the more traditionnal TKD,with forms and hand techniques? Or are you in the "olympic" kind with kicks only?
P.S. dont worry about some of the forum members who have a nice day by dissing TKD...In reality they are jaleous because they can't kick high!
-Michel.
montrealwingchun.com
Senior Member
That's because us kung fu guys realize that "hey i got hands, i think i'll use them"Originally posted by Mr Nunchaku
However, I fail to see the resemblence of tae kwon do and chinese martial arts.
"The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you."
"Fighting is not hitting, any fool can hit. Fighting is making the other guy miss. He misses, he gets scarred."
"Nudity and violence are what make a good movie. Violent lesbian nudity makes a great movie." - GDA
- Where's my Mook?
Registered User
I do know that Okinowa became a melting pot for many styles. Chinese influences as well as Japanese arts had a great impact on Okinawan styles. In turn Okinowa had it's influence on many arts.
This little knot might be easier to untie if you can trace your lineage. Perhaps your lineage's history had ties to Okinowa? Some styles claim to go way way back and in reality do, but not in it's current incarnation as we would know it.
Here's a shamless plug for my schools site, but just check out the american kenpo history and you can understand how complex and difficult an arts history can be to trace. Kenpo History
Last edited by don bohrer; 12-14-2001 at 06:11 PM.
SUP3R L33T H4X0R
Hey there, i also study tae kwon do (you'll most often see it referred to as TKD here). So you in WTF or ITF?
Free thinkers are dangerous!
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