Actually, all I've said is that we should rely a bit more on thinking about what we do, because with a bit of thought and intuition, we can make a lot of adjustments to our practice, and thus progess a lot faster, much as, for example, breakdancers and freerunners do. And I've used that to suggest that maybe strictly formal schools and styles could be preventing people from following that method after a certain point, and maybe retarding what the actual training process should reallly be like, by having students endlessly copy the instructor, ot style's set movements which are themselves not necessarily working for either the instructor or the students - when in reality, a good coach should actually work to encourage us to achieve our personal potential, play to our strengths, and unfold our own peculiar understanding of an art, albeit within clear sports science parameters.
In which case, what you 'see' is not really the arbiter of what was really there. As I've said probably three or four times in this thread, what I'm saying is actually obvious to the point of banality. But llike the economist Paul Sweezy once said, sometimes the obvious is just so obvious that people don't stop and think about the implications. For example, the implication this has for schools where students are paying to become ever more perfect clones of their teachers - i.e. most CMA schools. I guess it is, in some ways, self-indulgent to say such an obviously true thing, and then negotiate the tidal wave of denial and personal attack. After all, one needn't.
Last edited by Miqi; 03-06-2014 at 02:59 PM.
Studying Chen Style Hunyuan Taiji under Master Wang Feng Ming
http://www.worldtaiji.com/
"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
--- Bruce Lee
Wow, what a great story, Bob. Thanks for sharing!
When I was a teenager, a Wu style Tai Chi master asked me to punch his lower stomach and use elbows to hit his chest. I was doing Shaolin then and thought I was pretty good. It was like hitting a volleyball. At the end, it was not me punching his stomach, but him coming right towards me, stomach meeting my fist in full frontal collision.
That left me a lasting impression. This is certainly not the reason why I switch, but it convinced me that Tai Chi is a valid martial arts if done right, and some Tai Chi masters can really surprise you.
Again, thanks for sharing your story!
Studying Chen Style Hunyuan Taiji under Master Wang Feng Ming
http://www.worldtaiji.com/
"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
--- Bruce Lee
If you train so called "external" art such as SC or Judo, and you have been thrown down on the ground 200 times daily for the past 6 years, your body should be able to take a full powerful punch as well. It's all about your inside air pressure to balance the outside force. It's simple physics. One time someone asked me to punch his belly (he had a fat beer belly), I told him that I only punch the head and I don't punch the body. As far as the elbow hit the chest, I have not met anybody who would want me to do that to him yet.
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 03-18-2014 at 10:29 AM.
http://johnswang.com
More opinion -> more argument
Less opinion -> less argument
No opinion -> no argument
I am considered a Nutjob! NOTE Truth in advertising
A few of my friends were talking about traditional vs modern MA so on one conversation I told them that they would only have to spend at least 3 years to learn CMA!
1. Learn Beijing shi 24 taijiquan
2. Spend 2 years (at minimum) learning shuaijiao or Mongolian wrestling and even judo
3. Their art would be as formidable as any art out there per modern training
4. They looked at me like the Nutjob that I am and as they call me.
That was the best day of my life so I told them to test it. Their response "dude, you will be a nutjob for eternity'
the external internal divide is an artificial fence designed by people who want to mind fuk you and take your money.
Honorary African American
grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC
The 'internal external divide', in this sense, just means the swindle of pretending that there is an easy way that comes through slow movement and standing, and some kind of magical way of issuing force that no one can actually demonstrate. In that sense, this is true, and it's therefore not surprising that many people become disillusioned with the idea and fall into the trap of thinking that it's meaningless nonsense.
There is another way of thinking about it - looking at it in a way that actually makes sense, that is practical, that has benefits for actual training, and that connects training method with practical results. And that is the idea that a mixture of learning from others, and personal experimentation and intuitive adaptation, is what 'external' and 'internal' really means. This is the only explanation that actually makes any sense, that has any practical results, and actually connects directly with the teaching of all the available literature on the training methods we get from the past.
It's very easy to think that something is rubbish. Not so easy to see that it might just be your interpretation that's rubbish.
"If a challenger comes along with a simple alternative to the theory on which they have built their careers, most scientists are not likely to be receptive, since their status will be undermined and their lifelong commitment apparently wasted".
"A person who challenges the conventional wisdom is likely to be ignored, then dismissed, and then finally, if these responses are inadequate, attacked".
Brian Martin (1998) "Strategies for Dissenting Scientists" in Journal of Scientific Exploration 12:4, pp606-616
agreed.
There is no such thing as internal and external.
There is only whole body.
People that cannot grasp this concept are neophytes who like most westerners buy into that fantasy magical BS.
Mouth Boxers have not the testicular nor the spinal fortitude to be known.
Hence they hide rather than be known as adults.
The opoosite, in fact, is true: as Wang Xiang Zhai said "bound foot grows the least".
In fact, whole body power is nothing to do with internal and external. In the way that you use all three of these terms, however, internal and external are indeed meaningless, but you have simply replaced them with the equally meaningless 'whole body power'.
Not that 'whole body power' actually is meaningless - just that, as you use it, it's just yet another magical ability that you can't demonstrate, and has to be believed - and those who don't believe it have to be described as 'neophytes'.
In other words, you are repeating the argument strategy of the tailors in the tale of 'the Emperor's new clothes'.
Last edited by Miqi; 03-24-2014 at 12:06 PM.
How will you apply your "internal" when you use "foot sweep" on your opponent?
http://johnswang.com
More opinion -> more argument
Less opinion -> less argument
No opinion -> no argument
No such thing as internal and external.
There is only the body which has both components.
Wang Shifu, I have neophytes on ignore as dealing with their deluded views is tiresome.
There is not separation of the body.
The mind commands
the body responds
the energy follows
As I have said before. Whole body=mind, body and energy.
Mouth Boxers have not the testicular nor the spinal fortitude to be known.
Hence they hide rather than be known as adults.
Saying that one undefined term equals another undefined term doesn't explain anything - much like saying "qi equals energy" or "whole body power equals mind, body, energy". In no way does that define what "whole body power" is. It does, however, rather conveniently make "whole body power" into a metaphysical concept that therefore doesn't have to be demonstrated - it only has to be 'believed'.
I say, conversely, that whole body power is simply a mechanical way of using the body, which can be demonstrated, and shown to be different to other ways of using the body by clearly showing that more of the total physical machine is used in the technique. The most obvious example would be a jab that comes from the arm only (not whole body), and jab that utilises torque and pressing forward from the back foot, as per yiquan.
Being physically large and clumisily putting that weight behind a technique is not 'whole body power', however - it's 'whole body weight power' which is something very different - much like just stepping in with a punch.