7 Star forms

[FEELERSTRIKE]

I have always understood that the maternal mantis forms that the style originated from where beng bu , lan jie and ba zhou . If this is true , is ba zhou one of the missing mainland forms ?

[FEELERSTRIKE]

Our late Grandmaster was one who fled mainland China in 1949 to go to Taiwan before finally arriving in the U.K. in 1970 . THis is why I am interested in the 'missing mainland forms ' especially the maternal forms

[MantisifuFW]

FS,

By my research, from both HK sources and mainland, from Fan Xudong back, Qixing Tanglang Quan has had no set called Ba Zhou Quan. Does Qixing have eight elbows, short body strikes and short range strikes, indeed. By my research, it was added by Luo Guangyu.

My research is that from Luo Guangyu onward, HK Tanglang is a mixture of Qixing, Meihua and Guangbang Tanglang. As such there are versions of Bazhou Quan in HK that is not in Qixing Tanglang.

The questions about the origin and veracity of the legend and saying that Beng Bu, Lan Jie and Ba Zhou being the original sets are open to question. Some would immediately question the verse because some scholars hold that the name Lan Jie "Obstruct" is actually Luan Jie "Chaotically connected". The difference in the name of the set immediately places the verse in, they would argue, a much later place than the actual form and its true name. (This is not my position but one that is out there).

Similarly one could argue that the inclusion of Ba Zhou, ( a Meihua set) means that the verse applies to the Meihua and derivative branches and their legend/history of Tanglang origin. The mixture of legends and verses from different branches, especially in Taiwan and Hong Kong virtual melting pots of Tanglang can obviously lead to confusion and LOTS of questions, which I have much more of than I have answers!

Hope I am not just confusing the issue.

Steve Cottrell

[MantisifuFW]

FS,

Please do not take the following questions as anything but the first parameters I would consider if I were doing the investigation.

That is about a 20 year timeframe. Given that the martial community there is so close, distance-wise, do you think that other influences other than those of the Qixing line could have been brought in, such as HK, (who's influence was in TAiwan because the Taiwanese masters were very open and aggressive in their study of Tanglang)? To have remained untouched by such a gathering of talented masters would be possible but how likely? I certainly do not know but it is worth thinking about.

The first indicator is that if you have a Ba Zhou, (and if my research is true), then it is already certain that there are other influences present in your Tanglang, either HK or Taiwan Meihua.

Second, if you have a Tanglang Chu Dong and Tanglang Toe Tao Quan, then, (by my research), you have HK influence.

Hope it helps,

Steve Cottrell

[FEELERSTRIKE]

MantisifuFW ,
Again many thanks for your observations , and knowledge of the mantis system . It has again opened questions for me and no doubt many hours of research and debate in the upcoming winter months especially over a beer or two in the pub . As always the system holds many secrets to be discovered on every angle it seems ( many I have cracked ) .
My thanks to all who have put forward their knowledge to this question .

[MantisifuFW]

FS,

INdeed I have got to get away from the colonies and visit you guys there! Talking kungfu and drinking beer...

Great to get to know you,

Steve Cottrell

[piotrj]

hello,

i was interesting about ba zhou and what i know there is no this kind of form in qi xing tang lang mainland (yantai). and it never exist in qi xing. it is only in meihua/ taiji meihua tang lang in mainland. of course short technics included body strikes, head, elbows etc. are important part of qi xing, but they are not taking together in one form. short technics you can find in all forms, but some only in zha yao for example.

[FEELERSTRIKE]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MantisifuFW
[B]FS,

INdeed I have got to get away from the colonies and visit you guys there! Talking kungfu and drinking beer...

I'm sure you would be most welcome to join us , we have great kung fu , great discussions , not so great weather but **** good beer

[Oso]

LOL, I wonder what percentage of good kung fu discussions eventually get around to drinking beer.

must be for the analgesic qualities.

[holymantis]

hi feelerstrike.
how true.
great kung-fu training and finish with good mantis talk and [******* beer ] hope we do it again in dec


holymantis

[FEELERSTRIKE]

Holymantis ,
I look forward to you guys coming down in December for some good training , discussion and some beer ( I won't be rushing off this time ) . It seems that unlike some people we are able to hold a discussion to talk about the different backgrounds of our Tang Lang without a problem .

[German Bai Lung]

Originally posted by FEELERSTRIKE
Holymantis ,
I look forward to you guys coming down in December for some good training , discussion and some beer ( I won't be rushing off this time ) . It seems that unlike some people we are able to hold a discussion to talk about the different backgrounds of our Tang Lang without a problem .

I´d spend some time with Sifu Derek Frearson in this Summer and was able to cattch some of that British Coolness ...

Sifu Frearson was a very polite and relaxed man, able to discuss a lot of thinks in a very easy kind. It was fun and gaining knowledge at the same time.

So, I can imagine what you both are talking about ...

[FEELERSTRIKE]

GBL ,
Greetings from England ,
I hope you were looked after well on your last visit to the U.K.
Sifu Derek Frearson is an important figure in the U.K. martial arts scene and very knowledgeable about the martial arts . I have found him to be very helpful and friendly even though I study under a different Master and am not of the LKW lineage as you may have guessed . We have four different lineages of Tang Lang in the U.K. and I have had experience of all of them over the years
and most times it has been good . If you come over again I'm sure you would be most welcome to join Holymantis and myself and my Sifu for a good debate on Tang Lang over a good beer .

[sayloc]

mantisifufw

So you have a book for sale or history and origins of mantis?

if not you should

I am buying

[MantisifuFW]

Sayloc,

Thank you for your vote of confidence. I am, in fact, working on a book of mantis history. It is about 18 months off but it will contain lots of historical photos, and cover the major and some lesser known branches of Tanglang. It will not be my perspective, largely, but will be from intereviews I have taken over the years with masters of the different branches.

There will be a short history in a technical book I am also working on, (can you tell I have a lot of projects), but it will be for newcomers to Tanglang and will be more general, (seven star, meihua and HK branches) and not as extensive.

Again thank you for your encouragement. It means a lot.

Steve Cottrell