Plyometrics any good ???

[KingMonkey]

Hi,

I'm looking to develop a program to increase my kicking power and was wondering if anyone had had any good results with plyometrics and if so could suggest any tips, books or links to more info.

Thanks

[datou]

Plyometrics are excellent, though they can be quite tiring at first. The best thing to do is to start slow and build your way up. There are a few books available at amazon.com on the subject, but one of the best books is the Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do textbook by I believe Chris Kent and Tim Tackett. It has a little section in the back about the subject which provides a few exercises which are more than enough to improve your kicks.

One of my favorite exercises for kicking/leg strength is running up stairs.

[IronFist]

You're not really supposed to start doing plyometrics until you have a decent base of strength. I believe it's something like being able to bench and squat 1.5 times your bodyweight or something like that.

IronFist

[Serpent]

Originally posted by IronFist
You're not really supposed to start doing plyometrics until you have a decent base of strength. I believe it's something like being able to bench and squat 1.5 times your bodyweight or something like that.

IronFist

Why? That makes no sense. Ploymetrics for explosive power and speed are far removed from maximal stength.

[IronFist]

Something about the fact that plyometrics place a huge deal of stress on your muscles.

This is why I would assume that's true, but it's just a guess. I don't know that much about plyometrics:

If you weigh 150 lbs and you jump, you have to lift 150lbs. If you're doing plyometric jumping, you're coming down with your 150lbs of weight + all that extra force from gravity you get from falling down from your previous jump, so that when you land and immediately force yourself back up again, you're essentially dealing with a lot more than 150lbs.

Ford or El Pietro probably know more.

IronFist

[abobo]

A couple of weeks ago I read an article by Dr. Mel Siff where he suggested a calf exercise in which you jump with dumbbells but drop them before hitting the ground.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by IronFist
Something about the fact that plyometrics place a huge deal of stress on your muscles.

This is why I would assume that's true, but it's just a guess. I don't know that much about plyometrics:

If you weigh 150 lbs and you jump, you have to lift 150lbs. If you're doing plyometric jumping, you're coming down with your 150lbs of weight + all that extra force from gravity you get from falling down from your previous jump, so that when you land and immediately force yourself back up again, you're essentially dealing with a lot more than 150lbs.

Ford or El Pietro probably know more.

IronFist

No, I disagree. A star jump is a plyometric exercise and a good one too. Plyos should be part of any MAist's training, whether they're big strong or not. Your body will only let you do what you can and jumping is great exercise.

Really complex or weighted plyos should be approached with caution, but otherwise I say go for it!

[Ford Prefect]

Serpent,

I can see where Iron is coming from. Plyometrics are generally considered an advanced training technique that somebody should not attempt until they have a modicum of base strength built. This isn't because it isn't damaging to the muscle, but rather because the trainee would benefit more from that base strength and would respond better to plyometrics because of that added strength than if they just jumped right into it.

[Serpent]

Possibly, but that's not really how I look at it. I'd rather see someone able to do star jumps and skipping and stuff before I put a barbell on their shoulders and had them doing squats.

I guess the degree of diificulty of any given plyo exercise is the key here. I wouldn't expect someone with no stength training to do advanced plyos, I guess.

[neigung]

so plyometrics are calisthenics?

[Serpent]

Not exactly. By definition:

Main Entry: plyo·met·rics
Pronunciation: "plI-&-'me-triks
Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
Etymology: perhaps irregular from plio- + -metrics (as in isometrics)
Date: 1981
: exercise involving repeated rapid stretching and contracting of muscles (as by jumping and rebounding) to increase muscle power

Plyometrics are essential for martial artists to develop good speed and explosive power. A punch or a kick, especially into a heavy bag or a person, for example, could be considered a plyometric exercise.

[Ford Prefect]

Neigung,

Plyometrics are not calisthenics although some calisthenic exercises can be termed plyometrics. Basically, what a plyometric exercise is an exercise done explosively. Example of how these could be done calisthenics or with weights are:

Pushing = clapper push-ups; bench presses done explosively with a light weight

Jumping = star jumps or barbell squats done explosively with a light weight

The function of a plyometric exercise is to train the targetted muscle to be quicker and more explosive. How it does is this is because whenever you try to move a weight quickly, your body needs to fire a high number of muscle fibers in order to make the movement quick. When you continue to do these exercises for a bit of time, your body adapts and makes the exercises less stressful to itsful by doing just that: firing a higher percentage of muscle fibers. Plyometric training is almost 100% neurological is this regard.

This is also why nearly every strength coach for olympic athletes and pro athletes require that their athletes build a base of strength before trying such advanced drills as plyometrics. Building up your maximal strength will not only physically build your muscles, but your nuerological efficiency (firing of more muscle fibers) will be built as well just like in plyometric exercises.

The results of this will be:

-Athlete A strength trains for maximal strength for 2 months. Athlete A gains a good amount of strength and undergoes gains in neurological efficiency similar to those undergone in plyometrics.

-Athlete B focusses on plyometrics for 2 months negating maximal strength training. Athlete B will be slightly more neurologically efficient, but will be nowhere near as physically strong as Athlete A.

Which would you rather be? Would you rather be strong and quick? Or would you rather be weak and quick? The choice is yours.

[Jowbacca]

Wow, so a 250 pound guy would need 375 pound bench & squat; while a 220 pound guy would need 330 pound bench & squat before they should ever start messing with plyometrics?

Sounds a bit much. I could see the squat happening, but a 300+ pound bench is hard to imagine without a spotter and a ton of time in the weight room.

[Ford Prefect]

Nope. It's completely different based on sport, body type, fitness level, weight, etc. As weight goes up, the power : weight ratio goes down. There are various formulas which can compare the lifts of two men that aren't close to the same weight, hence the coefficients from competitive powerlifting which do just that.

Regardless, there are no set numbers. Plyo's are an advanced technique meaning that you should have a base level of strength (training) before using them.

[Jowbacca]

Well I'll try to figure out some way to get my lifts up to at least my bodyweight.
At the moment, with no spotter, I gotta use dumbells and the smith machine (or whatever you call the squat rack with the rails).
Been focusing more on weight loss lately than strength though, so I'm happy I'm even touching weights & not stressing out that I ain't lifting heavy.