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Thread: Juan Carlos Aguilar: Shaolin gym owner arrested for torture and murder

  1. #61
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    True in a general sense

    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post
    I would guess that 90% of their activities is the propogation of martial arts.
    There are dozens of private schools in Dengfeng that are 100% dedicated to martial arts. Those can be generalized as part of Shaolin Temple, but if you're talking just about the Temple proper, they actually do a lot of activities that are strictly Buddhist like gatherings and intensives, along with their charitable works like the hospital and the orphanage, so 90% would be inaccurate. Only a small portion of that aspect of Shaolin is covered in the English media, and I'd argue that we've covered more of it than anyone save the Chinese newspapers. We don't cover all of it by any means.
    Gene Ching
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  2. #62
    Nah I'm quite sure that 90% is pretty accurate, especially in regards to the source of their revenue which in turn should adequately fund their side projects (hospital/orphanage etc.).

    Perhaps in future this image will change and they can once again assume the respectable role of a religous institute.

    I'm reading in various news agency releases and forums that this guy was never considered ordained prepresentative of the temple.

    But if this is so, as there are probably many such individuals floating about, why doesn't the Abbott Yong Xin made a public statement about them or even this situation.

    As of yet there (as far as I've been able to locate) has not been reported any public response to this item by Yong Xin or the Temple.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post
    Perhaps in future this image will change and they can once again assume the respectable role of a religous institute.
    Perhaps in the future you will no longer promote your chop socky "Dances With Wolves" fantasy as history.

    In 1832, for example, a Dengfeng-County magistrate issued a strict warning to the Shaolin Monastery concerning the behavior of its subsidiary-shrine monks, whom he accused not only of dietary, but also of sexual, offenses. Shaolin-affiliated monks, magistrate He Wei (fl. 1830) charged, engage in drinking, gambling, and whoring:

    "Since ancient times, the Shaolin Monastery has been a famous temple. Everywhere, there is not a monk who does not look up to it. Its resident clerics should strictly adhere to the Buddhist code and carefully follow the Pure Regulations, thereby displaying their respect to the monastic community, and their reverence to its laws.

    "Now, we have been hearing recently that [Shaolin's] various subsidiary-shrines monks have been regularly interacting with the laity, and have been sheltering criminals. Some invite friends to drunken parties, other gamble in groups, or even gang together to bring over prostitutes. They collude secretly and collaborate in all sorts of evil. This is extremely hateful."

    Even though he politely refrained from condemning the Shaolin monks themselves - reserving his criticism for their subsidiary-shrine colleagues - one gets the impression that the magistrate had the former in mind as well. After all, He Wei addressed his admonition to the Shaolin monks - not to their affiliates. It appears, therefore, that his opening allusion to "subsidiary-shrine monks" was meant to save the Shaolin monks face. Indeed, as the letter unfolds, the distinction between "monastery-monks" and "subsidiary-shrine monks" blurs. The magistrate forewarns all Shaolin monks - residents and affiliates alike - that they will be severely punished for their religious transgressions:

    "After the monks in the entire monastery read our order and are informed of its contents, they should all purify their hearts and cleanse their minds. Each one of them should burn incense, cultivate the way, and chant the sutras, as well as plough and weed the land. As to all the various types of lay people, the monks are forbidden to secretly collude with them. Nor are the monks allowed to interfere in outside matters, harboring criminals, and instigating trouble. If they dare purposely disobey, and [their crimes] happen to be exposed, we are sure to consider them more serious and punish them accordingly.

    As to lay people, they should not be permitted into the monastery...Tenant farmers should reside elsewhere. They should not be allowed to live near the monks."

    The magistrate's warning suggests that he was primarily concerned with public order, not monastic law. His edict is replete with references to hidden criminals, which he claimed were sheltered at the Shaolin Monastery. In this respect, He Wei resembled other officials who were concerned with violations of Buddhist law only so far as they proved that their perpetrators were fake monks, and as such prone to sedition and crime. Throughout the Qing Period the government was apprehensive - with some reason - lest graduates of Shaolin's military program would join sectarian rebels. In 1739, for example, the high-ranking Mongolian official Yaertu (?-1767) memorialized to the Qianlong Emperor (reigned: 1736-1795) that "...the sturdy youths of Henan are accustomed to violence, many studying the martial arts. For example, under the pretext of teaching the martial arts, Shaolin-Temple monks have been gathering worthless dregs. Violent criminal types willfully study evil customs which become a fashion. Heterodox sectarians target such criminals, tempting them to join their sects, thereby increasing their numbers."
    http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/...hp?article=521

  4. #64
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    You do realize that people donate a lot more to religious institutions

    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post
    Nah I'm quite sure that 90% is pretty accurate, especially in regards to the source of their revenue which in turn should adequately fund their side projects (hospital/orphanage etc.).
    What evidence is this 'sureness' based upon exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post
    But if this is so, as there are probably many such individuals floating about, why doesn't the Abbott Yong Xin made a public statement about them or even this situation.

    As of yet there (as far as I've been able to locate) has not been reported any public response to this item by Yong Xin or the Temple.
    Shaolin Temple and the abbot deal with a lot of criticism. If you read my latest interview with the Abbot in our Shaolin Special 2013, his response to my CEO monk question expresses his attitude towards such bad press in general.
    Gene Ching
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz cool c View Post
    the reason kung fu is" sold" so openly to foreigners or whoever in china ,is because maybe 1 in 10,000 adult men in china have even the slightest interest in kung fu. if they didn't, the art would die out completely. in fact if not for foreign students around the world it would be lost quickly.

    i can tell you with absolute certainly, chinese people could care less about kung fu. i don't care what you see on tv ,thousands of wu shu demonstrators or what. men in china care about work buying their wife a house, raising their kid, and taking care of their parents. teenagers and children care about studies, that is it. if they have any other free time it's spent on computer games. some teenagers may play a little basket ball,once in a while. it is that simple.if you dont like this and want to talk out your ass then go ahead, but that is how it is ,in real life here in china.where i live.
    so are there many kung fu schools in china? and do the students notice that there are only foreigners in the classes and no chinese people?

  6. #66
    wenshu: nice history lesson/cut and paste and?

    I get the info and stats from the same places/sources you do Gene.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post
    wenshu: nice history lesson/cut and paste and?
    When was the Shaolin temple a respectable religious institution?

    Shaolin is famous as the "birthplace" of Chan but it has not been a Chan authority for a long, long time.

  8. #68
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    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post
    I get the info and stats from the same places/sources you do Gene.
    I doubt that.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
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  9. #69
    hmm I'm seeing alot of similarities between you and Martha now.

  10. #70
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    Ooooh kinky

    I am often compared to lithe L.A. blondes.

    But seriously, do you have any sources for your comments?
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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  11. #71
    common now gene, I can't be doing your work for you.

    It would be nice for individuals who write articles or post " " to provide source material for confirmation.

    Oh wait that was the now defunct JAMA. LOL

    never mind.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFubar View Post
    so are there many kung fu schools in china? and do the students notice that there are only foreigners in the classes and no chinese people?
    i have been in china 7 years, beijing half the time. i studied bagua and shuai jiao there, my bagua teacher taught all foreigners. the shuai jiao all chinese except me, the shuai jiao school ,the student live there and do it as a job. in shenzhen where i live now, i have studied with three teachers, my first teacher taught in a park, he taught mainly tai chi which does have a small following in china, and i was his only foreign student, after him i went to a commercial school,one of the only i have seen in china, during the summer they had a kung fu day camp which had about 30 children students. adult class had two teens one chinese man and me. now i study with a teacher,he teaches privates at his place, he has 4 or 5 students now, i am the only foreigner.

  13. #73
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    I hyperlink sources in the majority of my posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post
    common now gene, I can't be doing your work for you.
    Really?
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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  14. #74

    How sad

    90 % of Shaolin temple's activities are propagation of martial arts?. It rather seems, that 90% of what people in the "West" are perceiving of Shaolin temple's activities are martial arts, Buddhist activities are in large part ignored. Only very few students of Shaolin see more than decoration in the temple's Buddhism and make the effort to learn also Buddhism from Shaolin monks (or when speaking Chinese from the Shaolin homepage).

    Recent activities have been the Ordination-month, where almost 500 ordinands received monk-ordination and more than 100 lay Buddhists took the Bodhisattva-vows. Then there was the several day lasting Water-Land-rite, the Shaolin medicine summit, the rescue work and ceremony for earthquake vicitms of Ya'an, besides the regular buddhist festivals and ceremonies. Besides Shaolin temple is still very active in helping to build up old temples,- and there are many more activities. Surely are not all "charitable", but Buddist activities and cultural activities linked to Buddhism.

    Just visit Shaolin temple's homepage (http://www.shaolin.org.cn/templates/...spx?nodeid=294) from time to time. Or go to see with your own eyes.

  15. #75
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    "90% of what people in the "West" are perceiving of Shaolin temple's activities are martial arts,"

    I would say 99% of the Chinese in China are perceiving Shaolin as martial arts.
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