Fanche

[mooyingmantis]

Originally Posted by xiao yao

Fan che techniques are purely hard in nature, there is no locking, blocking or countering involved, just smashing through the opponent regardless of how he acts.

Will's quote is a good introduction to the spirit behind the first Fanche combination I teach my students:

Dafanche - Movements 3 & 4

Left Casting Strike, Right Single Whip & Big Water-Wheel

Throw a left backfist toward the opponent's temple.

The opponent blocks the backfist with his left arm.

Convert the backfist into a hook hand and attach it to the opponent's blocking arm at the wrist. Then step forward with the right foot and throw a right hook punch to the opponent's left temple.

The opponent bobs underneath the hook punch.

Immediately convert the right hook punch into a right downward chop to crash through the opponent's lead guard hand and follow with a left downward chop to the opponent's collarbone.

We train this as a partner drill, on B.O.B. and with focus mitts.

Here are photos of the drill done solo: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...0549480&type=1

Anyone else want to share a favorite combination from the Fanche forms or using the fanche/lulu principles?

[Tainan Mantis]

Originally Posted by xiao yao

Kevin has a good article on fan che on his website, also theres some information here http://www.mantisquarterly.com/forum...php?t-187.html

As far as I know, only the lineage coming from Cui Shou Shan has zhong lu fan che

In that link the information posted by Ilya was also told to me, almost the same, as what was told to me by Zhou Zhendong. This makes sense since Zhou Zhendong also taught Zhong Lu Fanche to Ilya.

In the post linked by Will (Xiao Yao) there is the story of Li Danbai. Li Danbai is the contemporary of Jiang Hualong.

Fanche Enters Mantis
Li Danbai and Jiang Hualong's collaboration brought these Fanche techniques into Jiang Hualong's Mantis.

When does Fanche appear in Mantis before Li Danbai?
Can anyone name the appearance of Fanche in Mantis before Li Danbai?

Fanche appears in Illustrated Transformations of Luohan Short Strikes, but how do we relate that body of material to anything that we do today?

An article that I wrote called Leaping Fist of Fanche describes key points of fanche and quotes from Luohan Short Strikes.

Where is the clear line of transmission from Luohan Short Strikes to the Praying Mantis of today?

Or is there no line of transmission between Luohan Short Strikes and now?

[mooyingmantis]

Kevin,
Excellent questions! Do you think there can ever be or will ever be definitive answers?

[mooyingmantis]

Here are Wong Hon Fan's comments on the fanche technique used in Mei Hua Lu movement fifteen:

若 被 包 圍 ,
ruò bèi bāo wéi ,
If about to be surrounded,

則 翻 車 之 手 為 可 用 也 .
zé fān chē zhī shǒu wéi kě yòng yě
then the Fanche hands can be used.

In Mei Hua Lu, fanche has downward spinning chops coupled with quick, alternating, backward retreating steps.

[xiao yao]

Yes, I think fan che techniques are like an "if all else fails" idea. After all, it is just refined windmilling!

[mooyingmantis]

Tonight in class I decided to see how well my students were grasping the fanche principle after a couple weeks of practicing the drills. So we put on the MMA gloves and hopped up on the leitai.

Dominic, my lankiest student, was able to apply the technique effectively against his classmates. His long arms whipped in and tagged the others over and over. It was fun to watch.

Dominic is the least aggressive of my students and I am hoping his success with fanche will help cure his timidity.

[Yao Sing]

All he needs is to find something that works for him and that will boost his confidence level. Watch out, you might just create a monster.

[mooyingmantis]

Mike Dasargo posted a good clip on YouTube demonstrating the Fanche principle on several planes. I thought you might enjoy it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WecMu...eature=related

[mooyingmantis]

For fanche and lulu to be effective, a few upper body prerequisites are in order:

1. The shoulder joints must be loose.
Stretching and arm windmilling can help accomplish this.

2. The shoulder muscles must be strong.
Windmilling with LIGHT weights (2 - 5 lbs wrist weights or dumbbells are enough) is a good start. Lifting with cables and weights, plus elastic bands are also good equipment-based exercises.

3. The forearms must be conditioned.
The ulna (for fanche) and radius (for lulu and reverse fanche) bones of the forearm can be conditioned through traditional three star striking on a post or training partner. Rolling a metal bar along the ulna and radius is also a good conditioning method.

[mooyingmantis]

Two moves from Xiaofanche can also be found in Zhai Yao San Lu movements twenty-four and twenty-five.

Here are their names from the quanpu of Zhai Yao San Lu and a brief description:

回 身 六 手 翻 車 - huí shēn liù shǒu fān chē - Turn Body, Six Hands Fanche

Step the left foot forward with a left downward chop. Step the right foot forward with a right downward chop. Hop forward onto the left foot with a left downward chop. Step the right foot forward with a right downward chop. Follow with a left downward chop and a right downward chop from a stationary right Small Hill Climbing stance. The last right chop lands at knee height with the left arm held overhead guarding the top of the head.

一 肘 遮 半 身 - yī zhǒu zhē bàn shēn - One Elbow Shields Half the Body

Shuffle three steps forward with the level arm rising, falling, rising, falling, and rising in a blocking maneuver followed by a right insert strike. Each time the arm rises to block, the left rear foot comes up and touches the heel of the front right foot. Each time the lead right foot advances the arm drops to block, until the third shuffle when the right lead fist thrusts forward.

The moves can be seen here at 32:19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8N7PPr7Ngo

The moves are explained in detail at 32:40

[xiao yao]

both those movements appear in zhong lu fan che, but with different names.

the second movement is done while retreating with more of a leaping type step

[mooyingmantis]

Originally Posted by xiao yao

both those movements appear in zhong lu fan che, but with different names.

the second movement is done while retreating with more of a leaping type step

Interesting!

I believe the first movement is called zou ma fan che ("running horse turning wheel") in zhonglu fanche, correct?

I have always seen the second movement done with advancing leaps. So that is a different take on the movement. Are the leaps meant for breaking contact with the opponent to regroup?

Thanks for sharing!

[Tainan Mantis]

Originally Posted by mooyingmantis

一 肘 遮 半 身 - yī zhǒu zhē bàn shēn - One Elbow Shields Half the Body

The moves can be seen here at 32:19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8N7PPr7Ngo

The moves are explained in detail at 32:40

Where is 'one elbow shields half the body'?
It is on 3rd zhai yao.

What other form?
None that I know of. How do you determine that it is in Xiao Fanche 2nd rd? Which family teaches it this way?

Yes, there is move in Xiao Fanche that looks like 'one elbow shields half the body' but who says that it is the same (I mean besides you?)?

Zhai Yao forms are clearly recorded from the era of their creation, but I have never seen or heard that there is a Xiao Fanche manuscript that clearly was written in the era of its creation.

[Tainan Mantis]

Here are some Xiao Fanche clips to compare.

Here is one of the versions (of three) that my Teacher Shi Zhengzhong learned from a man who studied with Zhao Zhuxi BEFORE he taught in Vietnam.

CCK Taichi mantis xiao Fan che

That odd jumping chop in the 2nd rd is what you are calling one elbow sheilds half the body?

Wang Chieh Laoshi: Xiao Fan Che Quan, Babu Tang Lang

Wang Jie, student of Wei Xiaotang does the same form, though this video is very unclear, you can see that around :38 they jump and chop. Just like in the Taiji Mantis version from Zhao Zhuxi. Think about the degrees of seperation between those two lineages of Mantis, this is the ONLY form they have in common (you can check me on that fact) and yet, I know for a fact that they both do this form in a very similar fashion. Mostly some stylistic differences, but the moves are, under that style, mostly the same.

In other words, NO One Elbow Shields half the Body.

[Tainan Mantis]

Originally Posted by xiao yao

both those movements appear in zhong lu fan che, but with different names.

the second movement is done while retreating with more of a leaping type step

In Zhong Lufanche the retreating move that you refer to is called
"Golden Cicada Escapes it Shell"
I think it is not the same as One Elbow shields half the body.

One move is an escape and one move is a short range strike. Is hard to draw a parrallel between them.

I believe that Golden Cicada Escapes its Shell, while describing the technique that you do quite graphically, and poetically, might also be a reference to a character in some old martial art novel from dynasties past. Who escapes me at the moment. Have you heard of who is called Golden Cicada?

I want to say it was Tang Sanzang's name before he was incarnated as a humble monk. but I have to check. If it is Tang Sanzang then it probably refers to his enlightenment as a monk and realization that he was an immortal being at the end of the novel Xi You Ji