Famous Shaolin Staff techniques

[Leto]

Everywhere it is said Shaolin temple was famous for its staff skills. Some say its staff skills were more developed or more famous than its empty hand skills. We don't see or hear much of these famous skills nowadays. I've seen two staff forms from modern shaolin, yin shou gun and qi mei gun. What others are there, and how much staff practice and two person work goes on in shaolin schools today? It would seem this weapon should have more sets and be focused on more than any other.
Do the southern shaolin traditions, like bak sil lum and hung gar, have "authentic" shaolin staff sets, or are they unrelated?
What staff sets does everyone practice, and what sort of training goes into them? Is there much two person drilling/sparring, or two person staff vs staff sets?

Were the Shaolin staff skills only famous in one period of history, and have since fallen into obscurity or been forgotten?

[bakxierboxer]

Do the southern shaolin traditions, like bak sil lum....

Aside from Bak/Buk/Bei Shaolin being northern.....

[Leto]

It's northern but passed down in the south, or did they speak Cantonese in Hunan? This is aside from the point. People seem to have done much research into the history of the fist styles. Does anyone know about the staff style, is there anything left today of those legendary skills?

[Jeong]

Do the southern shaolin traditions, like bak sil lum and hung gar, have "authentic" shaolin staff sets, or are they unrelated?

Choy Lay Fut has a single-person staff set we call the Shaolin Staff. We also have a two-person set also claimed to be from Shaolin.

[GeneChing]

You'll find a good thread on yinshougun that discusses some variations, as well as a discussion of the eyebrow-height staff form from BSL and other systems.

[RFM]

Jingang Quan uses the Ferocious Staff form, when I studied, Sifu also had some two man staff drills. One unique quality of the form that I learned was that the staff was longer than 6 feet, which does add a little bit of a new perspective if you are used to using the typical 6 footers available.

In my school, when it came time to learn the staff, we had to climb this hill (or mini mountain if you prefer) find a tree, small or a bigger branch and make our own staff (this included treating the wood, etc...). After mastering the form, Sifu would take our staff and put a personal engraving on it, he was a wood worker. Actually, none of this second paragraph is true, I made it up, but it sounded really cool.

Peace,
Bob

[brothernumber9]

southern styles have reknowned staff sets like Wing Chun Luk Dim Boon Gwan, Hung Ga Ng Long Baat Gwa Gwan, a Chow Ga Baat Gwa Gwan, Hung Fut Mad Devil Staff, Choy Lay Fut Seurng Gap Dan Gwan, and others from styles like Bak Mei, Tai Shing Pek Kwar, and other styles, but I don't know the names.

[r.(shaolin)]

Everywhere it is said Shaolin temple was famous for its staff skills. Some say its staff skills were more developed or more famous than its empty hand skills. We don't see or hear much of these famous skills nowadays. I've seen two staff forms from modern shaolin, yin shou gun and qi mei gun. What others are there, and how much staff practice and two person work goes on in shaolin schools today? It would seem this weapon should have more sets and be focused on more than any other.
What staff sets does everyone practice, and what sort of training goes into them? Is there much two person drilling/sparring, or two person staff vs staff sets?
Were the Shaolin staff skills only famous in one period of history, and have since fallen into obscurity or been forgotten?

Shaolin monks practiced different kinds of staff weapons. Qi Mei Gun 齊(齐)眉棍 however, is a kind of staff (this is not a set name) which is unique to the Shaolin Monastery. In ancient times during Shaolin's early history, sharp knives and edged weapons were not allowed in the monastery except those used for cutting firewood, and kitchen utensils. Therefore, staves were used to defend the monastery. Those who had learned the martial arts for one year were taught staff fighting so that they could protect the monastery. The correct length of this staff is measured to the users eyebrow - that is why it is called a ‘齊眉棍’ (’Same height’/Level with, the Eyebrow, Staff). This weapon was used by both Songshan Shaolin and southern Shaolin styles. The old Songshan Shaolin Qi Mei Gun sets are quite a bit different from the Southern sets in terms of technique, the way the weapon is held, and the way power is generated. The ‘southern’ Shaolin, Qi Mei Gun, is a ‘double headed staff’ and therefore is mostly griped both hands palms down. The Songshan Shaolin, Qi Mei Gun, has a single ‘head’ and ‘tail’, and is mostly griped with one hand, palm up, and the other, palm down. I would say that that this weapon "has fallen into obscurity". In our Shaolin tradition we still have 7 single sets plus staff vs staff, and barehand vs staff sets with Qi Mei Gun, As well there is bag striking, two person drilling and sparring.

r.

[bakxierboxer]

It's northern but passed down in the south....

That agrees with what I know of the style.
"Most" of the TCMA that came to the US prior to "normalized" relations with the PRC came through the southern areas of China.

[Leto]

The ‘southern’ Shaolin, Qi Mei Gun, is a ‘double headed staff’ and therefore is mostly griped both hands palms down. The Songshan Shaolin, Qi Mei Gun, has a single ‘head’ and ‘tail’, and is mostly griped with one hand, palm up, and the other, palm down. I would say that that this weapon "has fallen into obscurity". In our Shaolin tradition we still have 7 single sets plus staff vs staff, and barehand vs staff sets with Qi Mei Gun, As well there is bag striking, two person drilling and sparring.

r.[/QUOTE]

That sounds like a good curriculum. Is that all just with qi mei gun, or are there sets with longer sticks as well?

Does northern shaolin have the "rat tail" type staff, or is that a weapon unique to the south?

[r.(shaolin)]

Is that all just with qi mei gun, or are there sets with longer sticks as well?
Does northern shaolin have the southern "rat tail" type staff, or is that a weapon unique to the south?

Yes all the sets I'm talking about are done with qi mei gun height staff.

In our lineage of northern Shaolin we do not have a weapon like the southern "rat tail" type staff which very likely evolved from a bladed pole arm weapon such as a spear or possibly out of a ji 戟 (halbert).
In northern Shaolin styles, long poles were sometimes used in practice to represent long bladed weapons such as the spear, Chang Mao (long spear), etc

[Royal Dragon]

Has anyone ever thought about the idea that every set is a weapons set? Like all of our empty hand sets are really mostly full of various weapons techniques, with empty hand techniques mixed in?

[r.(shaolin)]

I remember a few of us talked about this a few years ago :-)))) Here is an old thread:
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=33861

cheers
r.