Antonio Graceffo articles

[SevenStar]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/ezin...hp?article=710

[Becca]

Yes, very good.

So, the question that entered my head – again, for the one-millionth time: How can these two systems, traditional martial arts and reality fighting, exist in the same world? Why don't the traditional arts just adopt newer and better techniques? Why do we still have more than one martial art?

Interesting question. I would hazard to guess that the way a person answers this question would be a good look into what they wish to gain from thier studies.

Using the same logic, why don't traditional martial arts just throw away the chop, the hammer strike, the finger spear, the monkey-brain, the slapping open-hand kick-block, or at least stop throwing their hands down when they kick? Why don't they see that none of these techniques work, and that they should stop practicing them?

Because we get something from those techniques that you either don't see or don't apriciate. And throwing kicks with hands down in my school is asking to be paired up with a student instructor who has instructions to "show" you why this is a bad idea.

[sanjuro_ronin]

"Using the same logic, why don't traditional martial arts just throw away the chop, the hammer strike, the finger spear, the monkey-brain, the slapping open-hand kick-block, or at least stop throwing their hands down when they kick? Why don't they see that none of these techniques work, and that they should stop practicing them? "

While no one can argue about the throwing the hands down thing and the blocking kicks with your hands ( they are NOT suppose to be blocks, but that is another thread), anyone that has ever been drilled by a "chop, hammer or spear finger" by someone that KNOWS what they are doing will tell you why they haven't been dropped.

Why doe she keep coming back to TMA?
Because deep down he knows that cross training in REAL TMA is better than anything else he can find right now.

Interesting choice with Kuk sul won...

[lkfmdc]

hammer fists are used all the time in modern MMA, slaps (chops) as well

but spear hands?

http://www.ir.isas.jaxa.jp/~cpp/TKD/.../sajang-04.jpg

is anyone really going to effectively use the traditional spear hand in a real fght?

[sanjuro_ronin]

LOL !!

Not like that !!

[lkfmdc]

LOL !!

Not like that !!

but that is a technique commonly taught in both Korean and Japanese traditions... ie BUNK!!!!

and there is a lot of bunk is so called TMA

[bodhitree]

hammer fists are used all the time in modern MMA, slaps (chops) as well

but spear hands?

http://www.ir.isas.jaxa.jp/~cpp/TKD/.../sajang-04.jpg

is anyone really going to effectively use the traditional spear hand in a real fght?

If they are a master of greco-slavic-dim-mak then that will hit a meridian resulting in instant death.

[sanjuro_ronin]

but that is a technique commonly taught in both Korean and Japanese traditions... ie BUNK!!!!

and there is a lot of bunk is so called TMA

No argument there !
**** that move brings back memories !

[lkfmdc]

Let me use a quote from another thread because it is relevant

To think that our martial arts ancestors (of which your own teacher is one) would
utilize techniques that didn't really work is ludicrous...

My teacher taught A LOT of stuff he never used nor would ever use in a fight. That's why I always found him a bit of a paradox, clearly a good fighter but also still bound by the chains of tradition, "well, this is part of the system, it's in the form, so we do it"..... the same CTS who in other regards refused to teach other stuff he didn't like, even stuff that was effective

IE there is no applying logic to the minds of old TMA teachers!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Let me use a quote from another thread because it is relevant



My teacher taught A LOT of stuff he never used nor would ever use in a fight. That's why I always found him a bit of a paradox, clearly a good fighter but also still bound by the chains of tradition, "well, this is part of the system, it's in the form, so we do it"..... the same CTS who in other regards refused to teach other stuff he didn't like, even stuff that was effective

IE there is no applying logic to the minds of old TMA teachers!

"I am sure that somewhere there is one that could use it, just not anyone I know !"

I have seen and felt a spear hand, one from an Uechi ryu guy and the other from a Hung Ga guy, both hurt more than I like to put into words.
Could they use it on the street?
Yes.
Would I do to my hands what they did to theirs?
Nope.

[Becca]

is anyone really going to effectively use the traditional spear hand in a real fght?

No. the hand will naturally collapse unless you condition it to take hits in spear hand, and most people just don't.

That doesn't meen it's worthless to know, just not practical to use.

[GeneChing]

Just posted: Silly Self-Defense by Antonio Graceffo

[WinterPalm]

One reason TCMA retain many techniques that your teacher may not speficially use is that what he thinks works and what works for him, and what you are likely to find effective, may not be the same thing.
In class I've been shown all sorts of techniques that Sifu himself wouldn't use, but that I really like, or the next guy. For instance, I'm not a huge fan of leg catching and the sweep from there or leg toss, but I'll show people it in class, and one of the guys is really good at it.
The same with the forms, you keep the system together and many people can benefit instead of having to conform to only a few techniques that might not suit you.

[David Jamieson]

People will call stuff they don't understand all sorts of names.

that article is...well, an article.

I was watching mma last night from the cree river casino in edmonton an dthere was tons of hammerfists being dropped in every match also, kicks were slapped or ducked, there wasn't a lot of good slipping or bump and go action happening, but thereyou have it.


antonio relies too much on boxing imo. I am beginning to put him in the "narrow" category despite that he exposes himself to a lot, he seems to just want to show how much more effective his boxing is. cest la vie.

We could equate it to: People who want to share their views on religion with you would prefer that you do not share yours.

[Pork Chop]

Doesn't he have a documentary coming out on Khmer boxing as well?

I think i like the gist of what he has to say: KISS: get good at something and be able to adapt it to the situation instead of 5,000 different options for only slightly different scenarios.

A friend of mine was making the analogy that forms are like an encyclopedia but knowing how to fight with your kung fu was like being a subject matter expert. If you wanted to be a marine biologist, or a fiction writer; using the encyclopedia is not the best way to get there, even if it's got all the information you'd ever need (not likely).

There's a lot of external teaching that should go along with forms.
In a lot of the other styles that Antonio does, there's a cohesive teaching methodology to get across the skills and good sparring as a lab test to refine.
Some kung fu programs have this some don't.

I really don't like the idea of dreaming up applications for arbitrary moves in a form; just given a certain shape, and expecting to be able to pull it off when things go live.
Lots and lots of drilling required at realistic speeds.