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Thread: Next it will be chi sao on the ground

  1. #1
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    Next it will be chi sao on the ground


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    Quote Originally Posted by t_niehoff View Post
    Believe it or not, I have actually seen an intelligent and impressive "ground form" from a German Wing Chun exponent.

    The Tai Chi "ground fighting" idea for taking push hand to the next level in the link is progressive IMHO. The teacher seems to know a thing or two about ground fighting. It's not easy to just integrate ground fighting into Kung Fu. So I would give A for effort in this case although I don't totally agree with using the push hand mindset in ground fighting. It is basically flirting with disaster to "push hand" on the ground as shown with BJJ if you ask me. Unless of course, your skills out match the opponent 10 times or the opponent has no idea what the ground phase is about.

    BTW, Tai Chi technically and ideally would want to throw or almost like "expel" the opponent far away from the exponent. So "in theory", a ground situation could not have happen (that is if you are die hard fundamentalist).


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  3. #3
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    IMO :

    - i doubt it will actually work, but, i dont know as im not him... (my guess comes from my own experience of trying similar as well as my experience of groundfighting someone with good chisao with no ground knowledge after i'd had some months proper ground training)

    - if he's not rolling with experienced bjj, judo, sambo, wrestling dudes, or competeing with them, he's not doing groundfighting, simple as that.

    - a few comments off the youtube page i largely agree with were "it's NOT a technique but ... dare I say feeling applied to all techniques" and "What he is doing (sticking, following), is something done by high level BJJ guys anyways."

    - if i was just looking at it from a pure groundwork perspective id say it was rubbish, but i've learnt from the past that you dont know until you feel/experience, so i'll leave it at 'probably rubbish'

  4. #4
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    So Sam was getting sticky with another guy on the ground?

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    Id certainly need to see him apply this to a resisting opponent.

    I understand the concept hes trying to cross over but my initial impression having sparred with grapplers is that it aint gunna be useful.

    In the traditional sence, its out of its depth, same for Chi Sao IMO.
    In a theoretical sence, as in the strategies it holds (not the theoretical non fighter sence) Chi Sao can be useful, however limited.

    As for your inuendo T, Tai Chi Toy Sao and VT Chi Sao are very different beasts IME.

    Forget the physical for a moment, and think of the strategy.

    Inherent in my Chi Sao training is the idea that if you stick with me, i can stick/grapple with you to create openings / opportunities to bang.

    This happens because the top position IME wants to nutralise your ability to attack, and work for submission, hence having taken you down in the first place.

    If you dont stick/grapple, posture up and GNP for instance, ill take the openings you give me and bang untill my knuckles are black and blue, if i survive your GNP

    Ive incorparated elements of my Chi Sao training and elements of Larry Gordons BRITISH CQB techniques for use in the bottom position, with results... but it isnt a special answer for everything and it needs other attributes to reinforce it when you meet an opponent that can deal with it, just like everything else in combat.

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  6. #6
    The great thing about ground fighting is that you can incorporate it into just about anything you already know.

    The caveat is that you have to be relatively proficient in groundfighting principles, tactics, and techniques before you can do this. This guy forgot about that part.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by t_niehoff View Post
    Hahahaha. Those guys are hilarious.

    If you want a German Wing Chun practitioner with ground skills, go roll with GM Andreas Hoffman and his guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Hahahaha. Those guys are hilarious.

    If you want a German Wing Chun practitioner with ground skills, go roll with GM Andreas Hoffman and his guys.
    Yes, Andreas is at least a purple belt in BJJ.

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    IIRC Andreas is now a black belt in BJJ
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  10. #10
    Well, we at the CRCA are already doing double chee sau on the floor, as well as lap sau, slow attacks, straight punch drills amongst many others, using adduction, repulsion, bucking, swiveling and other body mechanics to manipulate the opponent’s centre of gravity and complement our application of Yin/Yang striking/defense theory.

    Much of this will be covered in Sifu Randy Williams’ upcoming Biu Jitsu DVD coming out at the end of the month!

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    Biu Jitsu DVD
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by UKBBC View Post
    Well, we at the CRCA are already doing double chee sau on the floor, as well as lap sau, slow attacks, straight punch drills amongst many others, using adduction, repulsion, bucking, swiveling and other body mechanics to manipulate the opponent’s centre of gravity and complement our application of Yin/Yang striking/defense theory.

    Much of this will be covered in Sifu Randy Williams’ upcoming Biu Jitsu DVD coming out at the end of the month!
    Randy Williams has a lot of instructional videos. I wonder has this guy ever proven himself in any competition or anything.

  13. #13
    I am certain Sifu Randy has 'spanked' enough people in his past to satisfy his own curiosities as to the effectiveness of his system in non-competitive environments, and there are most certainly witnesses to more than a few such incidents (not I unfortunately).

    Although Sifu has no desire to demonstrate the effectiveness of his teachings in the ring at his age, he does however have a very talented student who enthusiastically and effectively trains in both CRCA wing chun and Gracie BJJ, and he has led his teams to nationally recognized success in many recent tournaments in the US. More details can be found through the CRCA main website (in the directory of US representatives). I guess people will argue which style contributed greater to their successes – BJJ or wing chun, but let’s just say for now, they haven’t stopped studying CRCA wing chun.

    Sifu Randy does have many videos; I would remind anyone watching his videos to pay particular attention to his polite and apolitical disclaimer that usually starts off each one, that his teachings are purely an expression of his own knowledge and experience as an effective fighting system, with no implied superiority over any other lineage or style. I for one, having trained in 3 other WC lineages, happily embrace his teachings and his philosophy.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz cool c View Post
    Randy Williams has a lot of instructional videos. I wonder has this guy ever proven himself in any competition or anything.
    RW has a very excellent reputation, even in the BJJ and MMA world.
    He is highly regarded.

  15. #15
    As a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu brown belt myself I would love to grapple that Tai Chi guy, there is no way he would be able to pull off that push hands stuff on a resisting opponent that knows what he is doing on the ground.

    The guy he is demonstrating on is as clueless as he is and is giving him the energy he requires and even that isn't helping him much.

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