Wing chun master class demo

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by wingchunIan

Maybe, it just looks to me like trying to force fit a technique that you're out of range to pull off, but then again it's equally possible that I'm wrong as grappling isn't my area of expertise.

This is the major difference between the "Judo approach" and the "Chinese wrestling approach".

In Judo, you want to use the minimum amount of force to achieve the maximum amount result. That's why the Judo is also called "the way of softness".

The Chinese wrestling is a "sport for strength". You force your technique to work. This will give your opponent 2 options, either fight againt you or yield into you. In either cases, you have just forced your opponent to make a certain commitment. This is why Chinese wrestler may attack aggressively. You don't wait for your opponent to give anything to you. You give to your oponent. You then try to take away from him.

[Robinhood]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

This is the major difference between the "Judo approach" and the "Chinese wrestling approach".

In Judo, you want to use the minimum amount of force to achieve the maximum amount result. That's why the Judo is also called "the way of softness".

The Chinese wrestling is a "sport for strength". You force your technique to work. This will give your opponent 2 options, either fight againt you or yield into you. In either cases, you have just forced your opponent to make a certain commitment. This is why Chinese wrestler may attack aggressively. You don't wait for your opponent to give anything to you. You give to your oponent. You then try to take away from him.

How does that work if you are slower and weaker ?

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Robinhood

How does that work if you are slower and weaker ?

I'll say to get fast and strong. If your body get tangled with your opponent like this, slower may not be your problem but weaker will be.

http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/982/deadlock.png

[desertwingchun2]

Originally Posted by Vajramusti

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You Know Who:
No direct Ip man student taught in Austin to the best of my knowledge, You worked out with some students way down the line and assume that you know wing chun.

So you say "to the best of your knowledge". Well obviously you are not the guy who knows every single student of Yip Man because ....

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

You don't know me and you make such assumption. Those 3 Ip Men students did not have comercial school. There were just UT (University of Texas at Austin) students like me.
When I started my UT Kung Fu Information class back in 1973, Jeffery Law taught WC for the 1st hour and I taught longfist for the 2nd hour. Please check with UT informal class official record if you want to. Jeffery Law gradulated from UT with a PhD degree in the field of "Operation Research". Last time I knew, he was a prefessor in some Texas university. The reason that got me interested in WC was I sparred with his brother ??? Law, .......
If your teacher is one of Ip Man's students (I assume you didn't learn directly from Ip Man - I could be wrong), you can ask him whether Jeffery Law and his brother ??? Law are Ip Men's students. I can't remember the 3rd person's name. I don't believe back in 1973 (Bruce Lee was still alive), there were any Ip Men students who could be 2 generation down. It would be very difficult to find anybody from Ip Men's students back in 1973.

So after he tells you the guys names, when, where, and what they practiced you change to "no major student".

Originally Posted by Vajramusti

There was no major student if Ip Man himself that I know of named Law.

So instead of reinforcing the arrogant attitude you have stuck yourself with here on this forum, why not just admit the guy had training from Yip Man direct student?

I don't know Youknowwho but, I say he has all the right to say "In yo face!!!"

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=desertwingchun2;1177072]

So instead of reinforcing the arrogant attitude you have stuck yourself with here on this forum, why not just admit the guy had training from Yip Man direct student?

---------------------You did not read carefully- but rattle on with your personal comments on "attitude"!!

[JPinAZ]

Originally Posted by desertwingchun2

So you say "to the best of your knowledge". Well obviously you are not the guy who knows every single student of Yip Man because ....

So after he tells you the guys names, when, where, and what they practiced you change to "no major student".

So instead of reinforcing the arrogant attitude you have stuck yourself with here on this forum, why not just admit the guy had training from Yip Man direct student?

I don't know Youknowwho but, I say he has all the right to say "In yo face!!!"

Probably because his ego and sense of greatness/all-knowningness wouldn't allow it? IMO he talks as muche 'krap as most here, he just just does it in a way to leave himself an out to be able to say 'poor me, I didn't say that!' or that your making 'personal attacks' or some other nonsense when someone calls him out on doing the exact same thing.
Or he simply pu55ies out and ignores the question entirely when cornered.

My other guess is there are some here that feel threatened (or confused) by what YKW has to say and does (since he has actual skill in what he says and bases his oppinion accorgingly). So, they try to put him down by saying he doesn't know WCK and make themselves feel better. So what if YKW didn't know WC? Does that mean his experience and knowledge should be discarded?
IMO, we should welcome a viewpoint that comes from another art other than WCK! Same thing in training. But there are still some that find it safer to just train/live in their safe little world/kwoon training with locked doors and the binds pulled shut and pretend the world isn't out there. Obviously, the same goes on here.

[desertwingchun2]

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1177079]

Originally Posted by desertwingchun2

So instead of reinforcing the arrogant attitude you have stuck yourself with here on this forum, why not just admit the guy had training from Yip Man direct student?

---------------------You did not read carefully- but rattle on with your personal comments on "attitude"!!

Well I read carefully enough to see you called him out, he put you in your place and has too much class to say "In yo face!!!"

No skin off my hide, go ahead and pretend you didn't get checked but, he did in fact accomplish the internet equivalent to - slappin' the stank out your mouf!!

I bet your buddy Handjob feels good that someone else is getting called out on their BS and not the YellowPickachu.

Happy 4th of July!!

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=desertwingchun2;1177092][QUOTE=



Well I read carefully enough to see you called him out, he put you in your place and has too much class to say "In yo face!!!"

========================================

Rolleyes?! Sorry you didn't get it.The gentle man does not have much wing chun training- specially to be comparing fook and tan to hook and glue.If he talks about shuai chao I am all ears.I don't care to be "in his face" using your terms.

I ignore the sarcasm and the attempt at humor. Cheers and bye.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Vajramusti

to be comparing fook and tan to hook and glue.

Why do you think that Tan shou is not glue (touch) and Fu Shou is not hook? Do you think at 1.05 in this clip can be Fu Shou? Do you think that Tan Shou can also be changed into "hook" if you want to (as showning in 1.48)? The reason that you want to change "glue" into "hook" because you want to "pull yourself into your opppnent".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M7M7rLxcYg

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

Why do you think that Tan shou is not glue (touch) and Fu Shou is not hook? Do you think at 1.05 in this clip can be Fu Shou? Do you think that Tan Shou can also be changed into "hook" if you want to (as showning in 1.48)? The reason that you want to change "glue" into "hook" because you want to "pull yourself into your opppnent".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M7M7rLxcYg

Joy,

Leave this for the JPinAZ and desertwingchun2 , the WCK experts to answer.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1177119]Why do you think that Tan shou is not glue (touch) and Fu Shou is not hook? Do you think at 1.05 in this clip can be Fu Shou? Do you think that Tan Shou can also be changed into "hook" if you want to (as showning in 1.48)? The reason that you want to change "glue" into "hook" because you want to "pull yourself into your opppnent".
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Thanks for your question.
I was actually at that demo by the late Brendan Lai. He was from a branch of praying mantis(not southern). The body structure and principles are quite different from wing chun. His art is more side-bodied and more using one hand at a time.

Wing chun is more square bodied allowing both hands to be used cooperatively.Tan and fook are seeds of motion -they are not fixed techniques in dealing with fixed attacks. Either one can be used for various functions and they can change rapidly and -are not limited to glue and hook.

In the Brendal Lai clip you show- in dealing with the posed attacks, I would have the center covered by my linked hand and body structure,take a wing chun step(footwork) and punch him out. (No "chain " punching).His own momentum would help bring him to me.

[YouKnowWho]

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1177122]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

Why do you think that Tan shou is not glue (touch) and Fu Shou is not hook? Do you think at 1.05 in this clip can be Fu Shou? Do you think that Tan Shou can also be changed into "hook" if you want to (as showning in 1.48)? The reason that you want to change "glue" into "hook" because you want to "pull yourself into your opppnent".
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Thanks for your question.
I was actually at that demo by the late Brendan Lai. He was from a branch of praying mantis(not southern). The body structure and principles are quite different from wing chun. His art is more side-bodied and more using one hand at a time.

Wing chun is more square bodied allowing both hands to be used cooperatively.Tan and fook are seeds of motion -they are not fixed techniques in dealing with fixed attacks. Either one can be used for various functions and they can change rapidly and -are not limited to glue and hook.

In the Brendal Lai clip you show- in dealing with the posed attacks, I would have the center covered by my linked hand and body structure,take a wing chun step(footwork) and punch him out. (No "chain " punching).His own momentum would help bring him to me.

Thanks for your opinion. Agree that the "side-bodied" change thing quite a bit.

[LoneTiger108]

Originally Posted by Vajramusti

Wing chun is more square bodied allowing both hands to be used cooperatively.Tan and fook are seeds of motion -they are not fixed techniques in dealing with fixed attacks. Either one can be used for various functions and they can change rapidly and -are not limited to glue and hook.

An interesting observation but somewhat influenced by your own life long learning of Ginsan Wing Chun methods Joy. Pinsan and Juksan are solid Wing Chun methods too, it's just not concentrated on as much since the introduction of Ip Mans teaching ideas.

I don't like using other systems terms for what we do either because I believe half the problem within our system are language based inconsistencies, which are not helped by throwing other systems terms into the mix! But I do appreciate some of the older systems, like Shuai Shou, as they have all had an influence on Wing Chun IMHO. Possibly more than we would care to accept these days, especially if we get drawn into thinking we know everything already.

[Hendrik]

For wck stratgy of the art, Tan sau is to deliver tan jing . Fok sau is to deliver fok jing.

Ching San or lien san. WCK is WCK. They all uses the same technics , tan jing and fok jing. The different is in positioning.

Those wck technics are very different compare with the ykw exampes of northern mantis in tem of technics and jing.


In the YKT layer five term. The strategy of the art is different, thus the positioning and technics are different, and the supporting force vector and momentum handling are different.