The yik kam transform

[LoneTiger108]

YouKnowWho, you are being too practical here

Wouldn't the world be a better place if we can all "claim" without needing to "prove"? hahahahaha

Not that I want to get invovled in your personal disagreements with Hendrik John, but I don't think it helps anyone when more senior people who post here debunk peoples 'ideas' without at least trying to understand the discussion.

Hendrik obviously is far better to understand in person, and this seems to have been proven recently through others posting very positive feedback from meeting with him. I too have had my own disagreements with him, and still do, but at least he is still trying to promote his Yik Kam teachings.

FWIW I have yet to see a clip from YOU that proves anything you have said here so far either especially with regards to being able to FIGHT lol! I too am guilty of this as are many many others here but at least I don't feel a burning desire to have to prove myself here on a forum or in my studio. Take me as I am, that's my motto!

[GlennR]

Not that I want to get invovled in your personal disagreements with Hendrik John, but I don't think it helps anyone when more senior people who post here debunk peoples 'ideas' without at least trying to understand the discussion.

What makes him more senior?

Hendrik obviously is far better to understand in person, and this seems to have been proven recently through others posting very positive feedback from meeting with him. I too have had my own disagreements with him, and still do, but at least he is still trying to promote his Yik Kam teachings.

And you dont find the way he promotes it condescending?

FWIW I have yet to see a clip from YOU that proves anything you have said here so far either especially with regards to being able to FIGHT lol! I too am guilty of this as are many many others here but at least I don't feel a burning desire to have to prove myself here on a forum or in my studio. Take me as I am, that's my motto!

He's not Robinson Crusoe there

[LoneTiger108]

What makes him more senior?

Just a slip of the typing, nothing meant by it. But saying that I guess Hendrik may be an older student of Wing Chun than John but that's just a guess...

And you dont find the way he promotes it condescending?

I used to yes, but that's just the way Hednrik writes and I too am guilty (again!) of sometimes doing that like everyone else here

You see, the problem is, WCK these days is becoming a spectator sport; everyone has something to say, but few are willing to put it to the test. If the WC community lose sight of "practicality", it will just become a "theoretical" and "philosophical" game with battles fought over words.

I disagree. This actually happended 2-3 decades ago when Wing Chun, a complete Chinese Martial Art, was turned into a sansau based 'scientific' kung fu style! Saying that, passed generations at least fought I guess, but the overall basic standard of the fighters was much less then too I suppose so Wing Chun stood its ground. Not so easy these days.

What I believe is wrong with our community is that is IS NOT a community!! Without world wide participation in standardizing what Wing Chun is or isn't we will always have people that can and will take the pi$$ and teach Wing Chun with very little knowledge that has been gained unscupuously from shady teaching, on sites like Youtube or a brief seminar here or there.

And this is only evident when you are in the same room as eachother, as we all know the mirror of Wing Chun can be shattered in many cases when true common sense prevails!

[GlennR]

Just a slip of the typing, nothing meant by it. But saying that I guess Hendrik may be an older student of Wing Chun than John but that's just a guess...

In regards to WC i believe he is, but John has a very stong/long TC background of which they were debating .... amongst other things

I used to yes, but that's just the way Hednrik writes and I too am guilty (again!) of sometimes doing that like everyone else here

Fair enough, that we all look down our noses from time to time, but i think in Hendriks case it is more than just the way he writes

I disagree. This actually happended 2-3 decades ago when Wing Chun, a complete Chinese Martial Art, was turned into a sansau based 'scientific' kung fu style! Saying that, passed generations at least fought I guess, but the overall basic standard of the fighters was much less then too I suppose so Wing Chun stood its ground. Not so easy these days.

Great comment about the level of fighters compared to say 30 years ago, on general they are better

What I believe is wrong with our community is that is IS NOT a community!! Without world wide participation in standardizing what Wing Chun is or isn't we will always have people that can and will take the pi$$ and teach Wing Chun with very little knowledge that has been gained unscupuously from shady teaching, on sites like Youtube or a brief seminar here or there.

I dont see how a standardized approach will help. Get 3 boxers and they will all have their take on a left hook... its the variety and different approach that makes it rich within the same style. For eg, I see WSL as opposed to TST WC and what i see is two different takes on the same style... i like that.

And this is only evident when you are in the same room as eachother, as we all know the mirror of Wing Chun can be shattered in many cases when true common sense prevails!

Ive trained with heaps of different lineages and on the whole its a slight difference in emphasis that differentiates them. Im yet to see any broken mirrors except in a few cases where the teacher was a fraud

[imperialtaichi]

J
I disagree. This actually happended 2-3 decades ago when Wing Chun, a complete Chinese Martial Art, was turned into a sansau based 'scientific' kung fu style!

Whoops, Dr. Leung Jaan introduced the Sansik/Sansau back in the 1800's. I believe it's in you lineage too, right? And it was very scientific!

If you want to discuss this, start another thread. Let's not derail Hendrik's thread.

[LoneTiger108]

Whoops, Dr. Leung Jaan introduced the Sansik/Sansau back in the 1800's. I believe it's in you lineage too, right? And it was very scientific!

If you want to discuss this, start another thread. Let's not derail Hendrik's thread.

Not that I want to get into it here but I will say this... Far too much is emphasis is put on Leung Jans 'Kulo period' which was at the end of his martial art life, his retirement methods so to speak. It should be understood that he did not teach his 12 hands throughout, just at the end, so it shouldn't be concentrated on so much IMHO unless you just want a 'quick fix'. Great for that, not so great for getting a complete picture of Wing Chun like Ip Mans curriculums IMHO.

And yes, some in the Lee family have these methods but they too are far older (from an earlier generation) than the current trends, and so are different again.

[Hendrik]

I disagree. This actually happended 2-3 decades ago when Wing Chun, a complete Chinese Martial Art, was turned into a sansau based 'scientific' kung fu style! Saying that, passed generations at least fought I guess, but the overall basic standard of the fighters was much less then too I suppose so Wing Chun stood its ground. Not so easy these days. ------------


Spencer,

IMHO,
Unless one has the WCK shock pulse power one really doesn't have WCK.

[LoneTiger108]

Spencer,

IMHO,
Unless one has the WCK shock pulse power one really doesn't have WCK.

I agree Hendrik, but you also need more than just a shock pulse signature to be a rounded representation of Wing Chun. So much more IMHO.

[Hendrik]

I agree Hendrik, but you also need more than just a shock pulse signature to be a rounded representation of Wing Chun. So much more IMHO.

Well, a BMW with a different type of engine is not a BMW . Disregard of how it races.

[Ali. R]

Well, a BMW with a different type of engine is not a BMW . Disregard of how it races.

Which means; sometimes we could teach an old dog a new trick. Same engine but different body/different engine same body………

Take care,

[LoneTiger108]

Well, a BMW with a different type of engine is not a BMW . Disregard of how it races.

I see your point but I aint a car dude! I know that's hard to understand, but I aint a car and neither is Wing Chun. This 'engine' you are talking of that represents us is not the ONLY engine either. It's Yik Kams engine so it should be easy to 'show' if it still exists using Wing Chun methods rather than Hsing Yi or Bagua masters demonstrating something else.

So Yik Kam is a BMW. Ip Man is a Rolls Royce?

[Ali. R]

Hendirk

There’s nothing wrong with what you’re presenting, nothing at all. But everything I’ve said is tractable within a University approach as well.

And if one combined what we’re saying together in the sense of University approach, because that’s where I learned it, most would come to the same conclusion (Same thing but different method); like you said,

Well, a BMW with a different type of engine is not a BMW . Disregard of how it races.

[imperialtaichi]

Not that I want to get invovled in your personal disagreements with Hendrik John, but I don't think it helps anyone when more senior people who post here debunk peoples 'ideas' without at least trying to understand the discussion.

Hendrik obviously is far better to understand in person, and this seems to have been proven recently through others posting very positive feedback from meeting with him. I too have had my own disagreements with him, and still do, but at least he is still trying to promote his Yik Kam teachings.

FWIW I have yet to see a clip from YOU that proves anything you have said here so far either especially with regards to being able to FIGHT lol! I too am guilty of this as are many many others here but at least I don't feel a burning desire to have to prove myself here on a forum or in my studio. Take me as I am, that's my motto!

True, most of my demos (and I have plenty of those) are just that, demos. But at least, I DEMO. And as I say, I am willing to cross hands with people who wants to test my methods. I'll be more than happy to post every video clip on this forum (but then I'll be boring the he11 out of everyone. ). If anyone wants to see what I do, look up user "kulokungfu" and I'm there.

I am not here to debunk anyone. I see Hendrik as a friend and I try my best to be polite, and even suggesting people to meet with Hendrik to investigate. If only I'm not so far away, I too would love to pay Hendrik a visit (and go Yum Cha. Hendrik seems like an interesting guy to have a conversation with).

It would help Hendrik tremendously in promoting his YKT if he too, can demo some practical stuff on video. Wouldn't you agree?

You see, the problem is, WCK these days is becoming a spectator sport; everyone has something to say, but few are willing to put it to the test. If the WC community lose sight of "practicality", it will just become a "theoretical" and "philosophical" game with battles fought over words.

Not everyone wants to fight, or compete, and I respect that. But I urge everyone, PLEASE don't turn WCK into an armchair sport and become the laughing stock of the MA community.