Shaolin Boxing before 1780

[CrazyPalms]

here an old form for ya... 1600-1700
http://youtu.be/KXYHY6tmjRk

[lkfmdc]

here an old form for ya... 1600-1700
http://youtu.be/KXYHY6tmjRk

what evidence do you have to say this form was around in 1700???

[LFJ]

@lkfmdc

Since these are the only clips of Mogou village Shaolin online, from one individual, I wouldn't expect many people to be familiar with it. Not that it is anything secret, just not widespread, concentrated in a single village. So, to call me presumptuous if you indeed have no experience with it is taking a bit of a troll attitude, just trying to be smart.

What you are missing though is where the significance lies with this stuff. You can find good and bad performers of any style. So what? Talking evidence there has been plenty of discussion on it here. You can look at Xiaohongquan as done in various villages which each have a timeline, compare the movements and see a logical transformation that couldn't have been done in a short amount of time, given the separation and the way they have transformed and overlap with other things elsewhere and their timelines. It's just irrational to say this was all done in less than a couple hundred years.

[lkfmdc]

and see a logical transformation that couldn't have been done in a short amount of time, given the separation and the way they have transformed and overlap with other things elsewhere and their timelines. It's just irrational to say this was all done in less than a couple hundred years.

you are completely wrong... I"ve been in the arts around 30 years and seen evolution of systems and forms in that period of time

just consider that 50 years ago no one had heard of yip man and only like 50 guys had learned his sets

The sets Wong Fei Hung taught about 100 years ago are so varied now they are no longer recognizable in some forms

you pressume far too much, sorry

[LFJ]

just consider that 50 years ago no one had heard of yip man and only like 50 guys had learned his sets

The sets Wong Fei Hung taught about 100 years ago are so varied now they are no longer recognizable in some forms

I would say there's an obviously different quality to this type of transformation, than with what is seen between the various village styles of Xiaohongquan.

[lkfmdc]

I would say there's an obviously different quality to this type of transformation, than with what is seen between the various village styles of Xiaohongquan.

why do you try to obscure simple ideas with fancy words?

in short, NO, the differences are NOT different, you just WANT them to be different

the entire shaolin thing is absurd when you understand that in 1986 the place was in ruins and there were only 5 or 6 old monks there... the whole thing is a rackett

[LFJ]

why do you try to obscure simple ideas with fancy words?

Which word was fancy? lol

in short, NO, the differences are NOT different, you just WANT them to be different

Do you even know what particular boxing sets we're talking about?

the entire shaolin thing is absurd when you understand that in 1986 the place was in ruins and there were only 5 or 6 old monks there... the whole thing is a rackett

So you are just trolling. My shifu was there and ordained prior to that time with physical evidence that proves it. There were not just "5 or 6 unnamed old monks" there. Troll on.

[lkfmdc]

My shifu was there and ordained prior to that time with physical evidence that proves it. There were not just "5 or 6 unnamed old monks" there. Troll on.

you are clearly a LIAR... or you just believe lies.... who is your teacher? He was an "ordained shoalin monk" in the temple prior to 1985?? that's rich...

[RenDaHai]

nderstand that in 1986 the place was in ruins and there were only 5 or 6 old monks there... the whole thing is a rackett

YOur not seriously suggesting Shaolin MA was created after 1986 are you? Cause there is no point trying to argue if you are already that deluded.

[lkfmdc]

YOur not seriously suggesting Shaolin MA was created after 1986 are you? Cause there is no point trying to argue if you are already that deluded.

if you think that all the "monks" that are there now are some unbroken line going back to the mystical past, then you are deluded

If you think "shaolin kung fu" is someone special or different from all the kung fu practiced in the north, you are deluded

If you think those videos are proof of 200 or thousand year old sets, you are deluded

but, then again, most of the shaolin crowd are deluded

[lkfmdc]

the entire shaolin thing is absurd when you understand that in 1986 the place was in ruins and there were only 5 or 6 old monks there... the whole thing is a rackett

This is EXACTLY what I wrote... looking at it again, I had intended to say "that prior to 1986"

Even having said what I did say, I didn't not say what you claim I said....

And I have more than documented, not just with "foreign sources" but with also eyewitness accounts from actual residents of the province, what I said, which is that the "modern Shaolin movement" dates to about 1985

[rett]

you are completely wrong... I"ve been in the arts around 30 years and seen evolution of systems and forms in that period of time

Yes, but that is in an environment where there is a lot of contact between people with different backgrounds, different styles and so on. You get a melting pot effect promoting rapid change. Your situation is the opposite of a very remote mountain village in an era before tv, radio, youtube, newspapers, magazines etc.

In that situation the practice will likely have been much more conservative and have changed very slowly, by analogy with similar processes in linguistics and dialectology.

[lkfmdc]

Yes, but that is in an environment where there is a lot of contact between people with different backgrounds, different styles and so on. You get a melting pot effect promoting rapid change. Your situation is the opposite of a very remote mountain village in an era before tv, radio, youtube, newspapers, magazines etc.

In that situation the practice will likely have been much more conservative and have changed very slowly, by analogy with similar processes in linguistics and dialectology.

read the original post more closely, because you missed the point entirely....

[rett]

read the original post more closely, because you missed the point entirely....

well, then explain the point more clearly....

[lkfmdc]

Nothing is stranger than the truth

Stopped into my favorite Japanese curry place today (where the curry is made with PORK) and what do I see?

One of the local "shaolin monks" in full robes, scarfing down not only the pork filled curry, but with chicken on top of it.....