This may be crass but I think there are some lessons with what happened to Alex Gong.

[rogue]

Quotes from two different people on another forum.

Now some smart-ass will probably come along and say how no mater how much training you have...you ain't stopping a bullet.

i have done TMA's and MMA styles....both have some to offer but MMA makes a real fighter
i want to be a killer, not someone who can defend themselves

This may be crass but I think there are some lessons with what happened to Alex Gong. My God, such a waste over what amounts to a dented car. To kill a man over such a thing, to lose a life over such a thing.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...8/02/HITRUN.TMP
Fender-bender hit-run turns fatal in S.F. Kickbox champ chases down driver, winds up shot to death

Jaxon Van Derbeken and Michael Cabanatuan, Chronicle Staff Writers Saturday, August 2, 2003

A world champion Thai-style kickboxer was shot to death in the middle of a busy San Francisco street Friday after he chased down a hit-and-run driver who had slammed into his parked car minutes earlier.

Alex Gong, 30, was pronounced dead at the scene on Fifth Street near Harrison Street. Witnesses said he was shot at point-blank range when he confronted the driver, who apparently waited for a traffic signal to turn green before opening fire and speeding away.

Gong, who had been working out at the South of Market training gym he runs at 444 Clementina St., was wearing yellow boxing gloves and boxing trunks when he was killed.

Police had not released a description of the gunman or his vehicle Friday night. But witnesses described him as a Caucasian between 155 and 165 pounds who was driving a green Jeep Cherokee.

The slaying came one day after San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown and other officials announced the start of a campaign to crack down on hit-and-run driving.

The 4:30 p.m. incident began outside Gong's Fairtex gym when his car, also a Jeep Cherokee, was hit by a passing car. Enraged, Gong gave chase on foot, going a block east on Clementina, then a block and a half south on Fifth Street. At that point, Gong confronted the driver, who had been forced to stop as traffic backed up near the Bay Bridge on-ramp.

''The victim put his arm out to stop the driver, the driver pushed him back and then shot him -- point blank," said Marilyn Moore, a witness who was riding in a car on Fifth Street.

'I JUST COULDN'T BELIEVE IT' "The victim grabbed himself and fell backward," she said. "The driver backed up, put the car in drive and drove off. He turned right on Harrison.

"I just couldn't believe it, I've never seen nothing like that in my life," Moore said.

Brian Lam, 26, an instructor at Fairtex, said members of the gym saw the initial fender-bender through an open garage door. Gong, who was inside training, took off barefoot after the man, said Lam, who grabbed a camera and followed. "As I was running up, I see Alex arguing with the guy," Lam said. "The light turned green, the guy popped him. He definitely waited for the light to turn green."

Lam said he tried to take a picture of the fleeing Cherokee, but was in a rush to help his mortally wounded friend. "I just yelled for people to help," he said.

A motorcycle officer on the way to the Hall of Justice nearby stopped, and he and Lam both attempted to resuscitate Gong.

"Last year, Alex paid for my CPR certification," Lam said. "I was giving him mouth-to-mouth, the officer was giving him chest compressions."

Lam said a single bullet struck Gong just above the heart.

"I thought he was dead maybe 10 seconds after he was shot," Lam said.

[SevenStar]

damn...

[fa_jing]

OMG. What a shame. I'll just say the obvious - he should have just gotten the license plate and called the cops. I think what happened to him could have happened to anyone who thought themselves somewhat tough, or just someone who happened to be really angry already about something. I definitely don't think it matters whether he was a MMA, TMA, UFO, or any other martial arts, but in this case he perhaps was suffering from some misconception due to his psychological prepping for fights. But it certainly is a lesson to the rest of us. Hey here's a quote that came up on other forum, the question was "What's the best overall Martial Art?" The best answer was "AK-47 and rambo knife plus 1 year stay in Liberia will make you baddest MAist"

[Royal Dragon]

"What's the best overall Martial Art?" The best answer was "AK-47 and rambo knife plus 1 year stay in Liberia will make you baddest MAist"

Reply]
If you survive it that is.

[truewrestler]

From different newspaper articles:

The slaying came one day after San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown and other officials announced the start of a campaign to crack down on hit-and-run driving.

...maybe Alex wasn't just angry but rather thought he was doing the right thing.

Either way, it is truly sad. I hope the person who murdered him is brought to justice.

[truewrestler]

Many people got the license plate and description of the guy....

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...hooting802.DTL

Car involved in S.F. shooting possibly found

Bay City News Saturday, August 2, 2003

--------------------------------------

A Millbrae police officer has located a car that police now think was the vehicle involved in Friday afternoon's deadly San Francisco shooting.

A Millbrae police officer came across an abandoned green Jeep Cherokee at the Chevron Station at 400 Skyline Blvd. around 11:58 p.m. Friday, Millbrae police reported.

San Francisco police Sgt. Neville Gittens said that at about 4:30 p.m. Friday, an unidentified white male was driving that Jeep on Fifth Street between Harrison and Folsom streets when the Jeep reportedly collided with another parked Jeep Cherokee which belonged to 30-year-old Alex Gong of San Francisco outside a kickboxing and martial arts gym that Gong owned.

Police reported Friday that Gong saw the collision and chased the Jeep to the intersection with Harrison Street. Gittens said the information police have so far is that Gong got into an argument with the driver and punched out the driver's window, and the driver shot Gong and drove away from the scene.

Based of accounts from witnesses at the scene, Gittens said, police were looking for a green Jeep Cherokee with the license plate 3NAN185, which a records search determined belonged to a 33-year-old San Francisco man, Kurt Reiner.

Police quickly determined, Gittens said, that they were looking for the wrong man. He said somebody had actually stolen Reiner's license plate off Reiner's car, which is not a green Jeep, sometime in July. He said that after Millbrae police found the abandoned green Jeep at the gas station, investigators were able to determine that the Jeep used in the shooting had been stolen in Pacifica in July from another uninvolved motorist and the plate stolen from Reiner's car had been put on the stolen Jeep.

Gittens said he does not know if the fact that the shooter was driving a stolen car when Gong stopped him was what caused the man to shoot Gong. He said San Francisco detectives now have the car in their custody and are processing the car.

[fa_jing]

I forsee a somewhat difficult conviction here.

[truewrestler]

lol, I'm sure they will lose... it was during the commission of a crime (i think) -- fleeing the scene of an accident while in a stolen vehicle with stolen plates

[fa_jing]

good, that's enough for at least manslaughter then.

[SifuAbel]

Nope. Commision of a crime is an automatic murder 2.

[rogue]

My wife read the article and jumped ugly with me, says I'd do the same stupid things as Gong. Though I don't think I would it's a slap in the face and a wake up call to me.

I'm just so angry over this. The sport lost someone good, his family lost him, his friends lost him, his business lost him. And all for something that his insurance would have taken care of.

What the hell kind of crap are we all selling to ourselves? Whatever it is we're starting to believe it. The MMA and kickboxers, the standards for training like they fight, and it turns out that many of them are as clueless about the street as the guy who got his black belt in TKD from the local McDojang.

Gittens said the information police have so far is that Gong got into an argument with the driver and punched out the driver's window, ...

WTF was he thinking? My God I'm so sorry for his family, but Gong screwed up on just so many levels.

From AsianWeek

But the way he describes his technique is scarier than Jason from Friday the 13th axing down your bedroom door. His premeditated execution of an opponent is an exact science, like Einstein’s theory of relativity or the Pythagorean theorem.

“Muay Thai is the science of eight limbs,” Gong matter-of-factly says.

He then taps certain body parts with his closed fist, explaining the potential lethal weaponry of each limb.

“You attack with eight points of the body,” he says. “Two hands, two elbows, two kicks, two knees. It really is a science because it’s not about being bigger and better, but it’s about being bigger, better and smarter, knowing when, where and how.”

Perhaps if you down one too many Colt 45s and possess a predisposed mental deficiency disorder, you might have the audacity to jump in the ring with Gong. But it won’t be the two hands, two elbows, two kicks and two knees that will thump you into a makeshift world like Alice in Wonderland. It will feel more like two howitzers, two hand grenades, two AK-47s and two machetes dicing and slicing you to bits.

Pretty ****ing ironic. Welcome to real reality fighting you all, it's a *****.
**** I'm just so disgusted, sick and angry over this. ****ing waste of a young life.

[rubthebuddha]

rogue -- thanks for keeping a level head about this. i agree with you -- alex' death is a waste beyond measure. and it didn't need to happen, and i agree that evaluating what was necessary (getting license plates would have been the right thing, even though in this case it would have proven futile) would yield some lessons, particularly in how the world is today.

i'm just deeply sad. alex really was a good guy.

[Royal Dragon]

Seriously, you guys may hava been abit offended by my stance (and probably more importantly the way I presented it), but if YOU were in the same position, and some crazy mad man busted thru YOUR window trying to get you, wouldn't you do the same thing? I would, and Terri actully DREW a .45 on a guy once for the very same thing.

I think my thread had some really relative things to think about. I don't think it should have been deleted just because I took the time to write it in such a way as to rile people up, that happens all the time here anyway!!

If you take all of the personal feelings out of it, because he was a well known and respected member of our little community, and focus strictly on the incedent as if it was two unknown individuals. Gong's actions justified the shooting no question about it.

If they do ever find this guy, I seriusly hope he gets off on self defence, because if shooting a guy who's literally breaking through your car window to get you is not considred a legit self defense situation, then nothing is and we are all in much deeper trouble than we realise.

[Black Jack]

I did not see the post Royal but your statement does have merit.

Certain martial artists seem to think that they have a natural kwang yang ming sense on what their attacker is preparing to do to them and can respond with just the right amount of control for their telepathic vision.

People have gotten off for defensive shootings in this very same situation. If I was a judge I would have to see the evidence but their is a shot if all things fall into place and the man was afraid for his life....aka car jacking....violence on his person.....then I would let him go.

[old jong]

I think it is better formulated now.
I guess this whole sad thing shows that it can be a big mistake to blindly follow our emotions.