Hao style Plum Blossom Mantis ?

[DAT]

A supposedly gifted instructor has moved to my area and I am interested in investigating the instructor as well as the style. I would appreciate any insight into this style and how it compares and/or differs from 7-star & 8-step. Specifically I would like to know if it has the internal aspects and chin-na of 8-step.

The instructors name is Sun de Yao. Hao style Northern Plum Blossom Mantis Boxing.

[Three Harmonies]

DAT
I highly recommend training with Sun De Yao. He is one of the better Meihua players in North America.
As for Chin Na, and so called "internal aspects" it depends not on the style, rather on the teacher. Only one way to find out. Check him out and touch hands.

Cheers
Jake

[Dachengdao]

Greetings! Sun De Yao is my kung fu uncle and teaches the real deal. You can check out his article in this month's INSIDE KUNGFU for more info, but I highly recommend that you go see for yourself what all he has to offer.
Good luck with your training!
Wang Rengang

[Three Harmonies]

Good to hear from you Wang Laoshi!
Jake

[Dachengdao]

Here is the link to this month's IKF article on Sun De Yao:
IKF

Hi Master Jake, glad that your Germany trip went so well!

[Vajramusti]

Hi Folks- I am not a northern mantis person in any way but I followed this thread and became fascinated with the new master in Atlanta and the well written IKF article that was kindly shared on this thread.

In what I do the elbow is also very important and the plum blossom symbolism is everywhere including in some footwork patterns.

My question out of ignorance on mantis is this--- how did the mei hua symbolism and
the plum blossom get started in mantis??

Thanks for any answer(s) however brief. Thank you.

joy chaudhuri

[RAF]

As you might note, the Dr. Figgler in the article, is in reference to me. However, there are two minor errors I wish to point out---my last name is Figler and I am not fluent in mandarin (I know enough of it to order food, find the bathroom and to fool a Chinese wife and her family. LOL However, I am learning.).

Although I am not active in praying mantis, I've been around it and in it since 1986 and even once earned 2nd place at a Great Lakes Tournament out of a field of 11---Qi Qing Zhao Yao--1st half).

I've watched for over a year or so, Sun De Yao train one of our senior disciples/instructors, Rob Peterson and its amazing the attention he gives to structure and alignment. Rob has made unbelievable progress under Sun De Yao's guidance. I filmed some of Sun De Yao's seminars and workshops and he gets right out there with the students, side-by-side.

We are hoping that his visa status will soon turn green and there will be more opportunity for traditional Chinese martial arts to grow here in the States.

In addition to being a great martial artist, Sun De Yao is also a great cook---

I consider him a good friend and although I haven't studied under him, also a great teacher.

If you have the opportunity to do a seminar with him, give it a try but always keep in mind that a seminar is only a sampling of the food. Recipes and cooking techniques require more time and practice.

PS He explained the idea of plum flower but I forgot---Are there 5 petals to the flower and its in reference to the structure of the form? I can't remember. Sorry.

[Three Harmonies]

Joy Laoshi, what a treat to see you here! I hope all is well with you. Sorry I have been out of contact for so long, but I have not visited Phoenix in a few years.
I am not sure of the origins, but I can shed a bit of light on the theory of the plum blossom (at least according to my teacher).
As I have been told it is in reference to continuous technique, never stopping. The five petals of the plum blossom do not fall off (read: technique executed) all at once, but rather follow one after another (as our techniques should flow one after another without stop). The blossom is also fragile and delicate, yet supple and flexible. So what does all this mean???? Beats me
My understanding is thus..... our techniques should flow one after another constantly evolving dependant on the given situation. When we meet resistance we should not fight it head on, rather we go with the pressure and change our technique accordingly. We strike (this can mean any technique, not just Da or Ti) over and over never stopping until our opponent is rendered helpless.
Does that make sense? Not sure it answered your question, but I hope it helps. It can also be interpreted as your kung fu brother Kurt Saenz Laoshi has explained it too me, as parts of the body and what not. I am no Wing Chun expert so I will leave that to you sir. I am sure the others on this board would love to hear your understanding of the Plum Blossom in accordance with Wing Chun.

Cheers
Jake

[Vajramusti]

Hi Jake- Thanks for your post and congratulations on your Germany seminar. I am no historinan(histori is a tricky business)_ but semiotics and interpretations of symbols interests me.
The plum blossom symbol is apparently ubiquitous in China and shows up in strange places. Its the national flower of Taiwan and they beat the PRC to it.
The plum blossom is a historical symbol in wing chun as well. Even the founding nun's
name Ng Mui stands for plum blossom- probably a cover for Ng Mui's real name.
Mui fa jongs/poles were part of wing chun history. The plum blossom is very hardy and can appear in many seasons- its always spring. A recurring theme in revolutionary times and also in Buddhism. Even the loyus comes out of muck.
Kurt and I once had plum blossom posts in the ground in Las cruces to practice wing chun balance on.
There was historically also wing chun plum blossom footwork going from the center to the blossoms. Our mok yan jong footwork was once called plum blossom footwork. The five petals to some also represents the 5 element blending supposedly.

But my question remains- how did northern mantis end up with the plum blossom.

I used to exchange some posts with FuChen yang(?) who I have lost touch with.
He apparently inherited one type of mei hua system.

Hendrik Santos posts on various forums of the KFO...you can search for some of his posts. he has done some interesting research on wing chun history. You know that the snake and the crane theme is in several styles including wing chun. Hendrik's take is that the crane is from Fukien weng chun crane and the snake is from emei 12 zhang snake kung fu- esoteric temple buddhism. Hendrik is from Cho family wing chun - a different tradition from Ip man.

I f you are in phoenix again lets go out for coffee. Excuse sloppy key boarding.

Joy Chaudhuri

[Three Harmonies]

Joy Laoshi
I am not sure of the history in regards to Mantis either. If anyone knows please pipe up.
It would be my pleasure to spend some time with you sir. I look forward to it.

Regards,
Jake

PS Thanks for the congrats. Germany was great, and the seminar was a success.

[Lu Bu]

Jake, stop bragging YOU SHAMELESS PROFITEER! CEASE YOUR PROFITEERING RIGHT NOW!

Eh. Now that that is over, congrats.

[Three Harmonies]

Lu Bu
Yes, indeed it is true. Now I rip off poor idiotic fools internationally! The Germans fell for it as all of you did !
SUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jake

[DAT]

I met SDY today. I was not impressed. You can private message me if you want details. I don't believe in airing dirty laundry in public.

[mantis108]

The plum blossom and Taiji designation IMHO came from the Boxing manuscripts (Quanpu) of Liang Xuexiang (1810 - ? CE). Tanglang's profile is decribed as:

Plum blosssom Taiji Hands; Winter rooster steps Monkey disposition...

In some manuscripts the plum blossom and monkey disposition are omitted. Literally speaking, plum blossom and winter rooster compliments each other. So taking plum blossom out from the text is IMHO an erroneous mistake. There is another more important metaphoric aspect of plum blossom (five old hands), winter rooster (footwork), and monkey disposition (agility/body method).

Winter rooster and monkey disposition indicate ancient Chinese pugilistic mechanics thus possibly link Tanglangquan to older Kung Fu style as far back as Song dynasty (960 - 1279 CE) such as Pigua, Xing Yi, etc... . However, there is no real solid evidence (ie written records of lineage) of such link exist.

Hope this helps

Mantis108