Attn: Benny Meng

[Mckind13]

Hello Benny Meng or Students,

I have tried to e-mail Benny through the web page in the past and have never received a reply. (This was around the time of the HFY luk sau seminar).

At any rate I met Fong and Jing Jing Evans here in San Diego.

They send their regards and best wishes. Also though they would like to be in Ohio for the upcoming event, they cannot and wish Benny and his students luck.

Thanks if someone in Dayton can pass this on for me.

David McKinnon

[Mckind13]

This is what happens when you do not troll or offend someone.

Maybe I should have said the people from the jing institute think Benny and his beatniks in Ohio don't know wushu from a hole in the ground. But I was being nice and passed on a greeting from them. When most people on this forum ask another forum member to say hello or send a greeting it warrants at least a "will do."

Glad the Daytonites can spare a few keystrokes to acknowledge that some of us are working on inter-art friendships.

(LOL) sorry guys just want to make sure my message gets through.

David

[kj]

You are right. It is interesting that in general, trolling and negativity get far more attention and reinforcement than substantive and positive offerings. In our respective and well-intended efforts to be succint or stay on topic, we also miss frequent opportunities to reinforce constructive behaviors, or conversely to extinct undesireable ones by ignoring them. These are among the more self-defeating and ironic aspects of our human natures. Odd creatures, we human beings.

In any event, good for you for contributing something positive. Just my view from the peanut gallery.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Savi]

Mr. Mckinnon,

I will be at the VTM this weekend. I read your post yesterday and notified my Sifu last night. I will be conveying the message in person to Master Meng, unless another family member has already done so.

Sorry for the apparently 'late' reply, but I am extremely preoccupied with work! Our family appreciates your efforts to pass on Fong and Jing Jing Evans' message.

Please understand some of us at times may become too busy to keep up with the forum. I have to get back to work...

Thank you,
-Savi.

[canglong]

David, I think you just needed to look at the number of people that read your post to know that Sigung Meng had probably gotten your message. I personally didn't reply to it because I thought you would have been better off sending that message directly to the Museum as apposed to posting a message to this forum addressing my Sigung by his first name with out the use of a proper title such as Mr. or Sifu or Master. I for one thought your post was rather rude. I see you don't see it that way or you might not have done this but that is how I saw it so that is why I did not reply to your post. This is of course just for future reference. Have a good day Mr. Mckinnon, see how easy that was.

[reneritchie]

FWIW -

Firstly - the internet has always been, and remains, an informal medium. One look at email tells you it is not written like a business letter proper. "ATTN: Futa1" is far more common than "Dear UFC Light Heavyweight Champ Mr. Ortiz" and you can take a look at financial message boards to see how captains of industry and fortune 500 ceo's are typically addressed online.

Secondly - unless you have deliberately been given very skewed misrepresentations of Chinese culture, addressing someone by their full name is pretty cool. Unless the person in question is *your* sifu, the appelation is just as meaningful for a taxi driver (though I don't recommend anyone run out to the corner and start b!tching out the people hailing 'em down as being disrespectful )

Thirdly - demanding something is often not as effective as earning it. If anyone with any sense read the original post, in between attacking people on the tournament threads, they would have likely responded with a quick 'thank you' and perhaps even a 'same back at you'. Goodwill entreats goodwill.

There's a lot of unnecessary BS that divides and separates our art, and its unfortunate that the divide seems to be growing as fast, if not faster, than the art.

[canglong]

I read that in English not in Canadian maybe that's the difference there but I do know in English my Sigung has earned every title he posses. Secondly I reiderate emailing the museum would have been a better medium for delivery of that specific message and you and I wouldn't have to waste bandwith discussing moduk or internet ettiquette such as this.

[Grendel]

Originally posted by kj
You are right. It is interesting that in general, trolling and negativity get far more attention and reinforcement than substantive and positive offerings. In our respective and well-intended efforts to be succint or stay on topic, we also miss frequent opportunities to reinforce constructive behaviors, or conversely to extinct undesireable ones by ignoring them. These are among the more self-defeating and ironic aspects of our human natures. Odd creatures, we human beings.

In any event, good for you for contributing something positive. Just my view from the peanut gallery.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

KJ,

Stop trolling.

[Savi]

Originally posted by canglong
posting a message to this forum addressing my Sigung by his first name with out the use of a proper title such as Mr. or Sifu or Master. I for one thought your post was rather rude.....you and I wouldn't have to waste bandwith discussing moduk or internet ettiquette such as this.

This shouldn't even be a discussion, but I am in agreement with the fact that this is improper form, *whether* intended or not. Master Meng is a recognized and reputable master in the Gong Wu (martial community), and is considered to be one of the best in the world through his skills, accomplishments, and efforts. Is Master Meng expecting people to call him Master? I doubt it, but he should be addressed as such out of respect and form. Every person, especially at a master's level, I feel should be addressed with respect and courtesy.

------------------------------------------------

Whether this is a formal or informal environment, I think depends on the thread AND who is being addressed. If the moderator shared the view that everyone is on the same level, then the rules about Sifu-bashing ( for example ) would not exist. Sandman's rule about bashing would be restated to say "poster-bashing" instead of "sifu-bashing". Some people seem to be of the perspective that we are all on the same level, be you a sifu or not. In my opinion, this is not just any forum. It is a martial arts forum, and in a 'martial' environment titles should be taken into account FIRST, then see if the addressee prefers to be called by another fashion.

Please note this is not a 'demand'. I'm just stating my perspective for consideration, that's all .

Regards,
-Savi.

[Mckind13]

Thanks for replying and notifying your respective Sifu about my message.

As I said initially, twice the emails I sent to your Sifu went ignored or missed. The first was confirming my attendance to the Kiu Sau seminar and the second was thanking him for his hospitality. The email I used was one he wrote directly to me so I do not know why it did not work.

Please send my regards with those from the Jing Institute.


David McKinnon

[Mckind13]

Hi Tony
No offense was meant. However was it really rude? Why not scold all those that call Grand Master Cheung or GM Lueng Ting or even Randy Williams (gasp) by there first names or by addressing them with less then appropriate titles or question there credentials. If you chose to uphold those standards for your clan shouldn’t your propriety extend to everyone? I have respect for everyone that passes on the art of Wing Chun honestly and completely. And while in the heat of debate I may have questioned the exact reason certain things were secret or withheld I have never questioned the integrity of your teacher as far as his teaching is concerned. Can the same be said for everyone and in reference to every teacher? Not always but within the confines of this forum we are certainly here to discuss and debate. So even while respecting the knowledge held by someone 30 years my veteran in the world of WCK I am freely open to discuss, question and debate openly and freely.

Thanks
David McKinnon

[Chango]

David,
I think you have noticed that the Dayton Members have not responded to this post yet. I can say that I did not see it until today because I check my "User control" and I check on the threads that I have already subscribed to when I really do not have time. So I don't view all WCK topics when I'm short on time. Believe me with the snow we are all busy! Also in my case two of my son's gearing up and just qualified for finals in our regional wrestling meet. I'm the matt coach so you will understand that time is of the esscence. Your message has been delivered. In the future if you would like to contact Sifu Meng just go over to the VTM web page and go to the "contact us" section. He will get it if you address it to him. If you have anymore problems getting through drop me a Private message and I will help out. This method could be taken wrong. Maybe not the best way to go about it. Well I have snow to shovel so I will let you get back to posting.

Chango (SGS)

here is the link

http://home.vtmuseum.org/

[KPM]

I can see why David posted here in a public forum. I have sent inquires to the VTM at the host address on more than one occassion without ever receiving a reply.

KPM

[t_niehoff]

Savi writes:

This shouldn't even be a discussion, S

Quite true. TN

but I am in agreement with the fact that this is improper form, *whether* intended or not. Master Meng is a recognized and reputable master in the Gong Wu (martial community), and is considered to be one of the best in the world through his skills, accomplishments, and efforts. S

I'm sorry -- "one of the best in the world" at what? TN

Is Master Meng expecting people to call him Master? S

An interesting question in many ways. TN

I doubt it, but he should be addressed as such out of respect and form. Every person, especially at a master's level, I feel should be addressed with respect and courtesy. S

"Master level"? Can you tell me what precisely makes someone a "master" in your world? TN

Terence

[Geezer]

Don't even waste your time on this one, if you bite he will suck you into his world of selective memory, I'm a Lawyer and His-Story!!!!!!!

Sheldon