Internal vs knife

[NafAnal]

Any specific techniques or drills present in the internal for dealing with an armed attacker? I'm sure there are but how much are they emphasized? I know indonesion and filipino arts really cater for knife attacks but what about taiji, xingyi and bagua?

You never hear of chen man ching working against a blade, or wang shu jin disarming a knife wielder. I read that wang didn't care if you hit him, he could take it easily, obviously he wouldn't be able to do that against a blade....

[Water Dragon]

Push Hands...

with a magic marker.

[NafAnal]

Are both guys still following the rules of push hands? Or does the dude attack more realistically?

How common among taiji schools is this practice?

[Water Dragon]

Push hands can be practiced:

1. Both people slowly and softly listening (builds skill)
2. Both people doing the above but adding soft strikes(adds visual recognition of attack paths, builds the bob and weave.)
3. Hard pushing to discover weakness
4. Hard strikes, throws, etc to develop fighting skills
Note, in my school, we don't focus on Da Lu, but we don't focus on fixed step either. We are taught from the beginning that the step is actually a yield or a follow, it is initiated by the other guy. To my knowledge, most schools don't do this. In fact, it was 2 years before I was introduced to single hand push and four corners. Just the opposite of most schools.

The logic is that you need to understand Tui Shou before you can isolate the movements and practice them.

I was introduced to some Kun Tao knife fighting recently. My first thought was, "Hey!! This is Push Hands with knives" Kun Tao feels just like Taiji to me with different mechanics to generate power.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Fact is , is that the skills of Tung Jin (listening energy) if good enough should be able to work for a freindly classmate in the school or a crack-head pushing a gun/knife etc. in your face when your out in a bar. So the skills are definitely there if you've trained and advanced to a level where you can use it for such.

[NafAnal]

That's the thing internal takes much longer to grasp. What happens if you're attacked before you train a good enough skill in the internal? You're more likely to be prepared by training in another system no?

[count]

The myth is,

internal takes much longer to grasp

internal arts and external arts all have weapons like knives, daggers and other kinds of blades. But of course, weapons are still only an extension of your body so the usage varies based on the principles you learn first with the hands. The training is the same as is the way you deal with any attack. I will say that internal arts like bagua have some devious weapons that remain hidden until it is too late. Knife against knife I would give the edge to the internal guy. No pun intended.

What happens if you're attacked before you train a good enough skill in the internal

I guess it would be the same as if you had not developed skills in any art. You are likely to get cut.

[NafAnal]

I don't think it's a myth that internal takes longer to master. The intricacies of the systems take much longer to develop IMO.

All i was saying was that for quicker results it's probably better to do an external method so that you can quicker prepare yourself for a possible knife encounter. I'm trying to grasp "pi" in xingyi. I know i will be trying for the forseeable future. If i went and learned krav maga i would learn knife skills almost straight away. I guess it depends on the teacher though. I bet there are internal masters who teach weapon defence and application straight away.

"I guess it would be the same as if you had not developed skills in any art. You are likely to get cut."

But if i had developed skills in an external art (which you would probably master quicker) then you stand more of a chance than if you had just spent a year doing the 5 elements no?

[Water Dragon]

Count is correct. Properly taught internal arts take no longer to learn than external arts. Properly taught external arts go just as deep as the "internals"

If your serious about learning bladed skills quickly, seek out a qualified teacher in Kun Tao or Silat. From what I've seen, those are the cream of the crop in regards to blade work.

[Wu-Xing]

personally, i think it takes longer to master the "internals" rather than the externals but thats just my opinion.

"But if i had developed skills in an external art (which you would probably master quicker) then you stand more of a chance than if you had just spent a year doing the 5 elements no?"

Yeah thats true.Thats why you should choose what system or style is right for you and have it clear in your head what you want out of it and if you are willing to put in the time to get it. Ive fought over the years and am confident in my abilites as a street fighter.I dont expect to be a bad4ss after doing xingyi for a year or two, i didnt start learning it to be able to defend myself in a few months.