The heavybager vs. The formser

[sanjuro_ronin]

Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76

All i'm saying is that i don't know who your grappling with but most of the people i train with have wrestling/catch backgrounds where movement is peramount.

As it stands now, I fully admit that I do NOT grapple with high caliber people anymore ( yes, I know, a shocking truthful admission on a MA forum ), but before that I trained with Carlos Newton and Wagney Fabiano in MMA.
That said, I was not doing PE training at that time so I never used it, but I did strike when I was in the guard and did it well enough.

Like I said, try to envision how your striking would be if you had a "blunt" push dagger in your hand.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

As it stands now, I fully admit that I do NOT grapple with high caliber people anymore ( yes, I know, a shocking truthful admission on a MA forum ), but before that I trained with Carlos Newton and Wagney Fabiano in MMA.
That said, I was not doing PE training at that time so I never used it, but I did strike when I was in the guard and did it well enough.

Like I said, try to envision how your striking would be if you had a "blunt" push dagger in your hand.

well I roll with some good guys on the UK scene, guys fighting at this weekends UFC for example, and I always did ok striking from the guard but I only use the PE now and then. Occasionally in the guard, not unlike the usual body body head shots when in low posture, also from mount if they are holding me down, its very effective for releasing a grip at close distance. But I'll readily admit I use much more normal striking and elbows on the ground as in stand up

[goju]

http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=...ne-beak-strike

http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=...rike-uechi-ryu

http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=...or-pangai-noon

these arent pe strikes but they are still attacks using a small target to generate a incredible amount of force like the pe so its the same principle

[Dragonzbane76]

Everyone there own like i said earlier... but to me they just seem like a waste of time. To anyone that's ever rolled with someone that has any skill then you know it's very hard to corner them and strike and when you do i'm not going to risk it with those types of strikes. I compare it with spinning kicks, there pretty and can pack a devastating attack, but the % of them working are not that high compared with the vulnerability you get while doing them. And someone with good take downs is going to punish that person attempting 'said kick' if they miss.

To me the risks out weight the prize.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76

Everyone there own like i said earlier... but to me they just seem like a waste of time. To anyone that's ever rolled with someone that has any skill then you know it's very hard to corner them and strike and when you do i'm not going to risk it with those types of strikes. I compare it with spinning kicks, there pretty and can pack a devastating attack, but the % of them working are not that high compared with the vulnerability you get while doing them. And someone with good take downs is going to punish that person attempting 'said kick' if they miss.

To me the risks out weight the prize.

As you say each to there own, I trained it a lot during my traditional days but rarely use it now, just as I said in very specific circumstances and usually against guys I can control first so you don’t get any arguments from me

[goju]

well you can punch someone grappling on the ground and the pe or figer jab isnt any slower than a regular punch so there isnt any reason its useless in fact as sanjjuro noted it magnifies the power so it can be viewed as being more useful or effective

and obviously you dont have to worry about damaging your finger or hand unless of course you are an idiot who doesnt have any extensive hand condioning and try to pe somone

in fact this was demonstrated on human weapon with the same master in those clips i posted
the host tried to break the board with a finger jab and nearly broke his hand because he didnt have the years of hand conditioning as the uechi eyu sensei did

they work its just a matter of having the conditioning to pull it off versus dismissing it due to laziness

[Frost]

It can’t be viewed as being more useful or effective for the simple reason no one uses them in any kind of full contact match…. Or do you think pro fighters only want to use ineffective and inefficient techniques?

I’d say the PE strike is a lot different than finger strikes, I don’t care how well conditioned your hand is hit incorrectly or at the wrong angle or against the wrong target with your fingers and they break the PE allows punch more room for error and is much more effective, anyone that advocates hitting with the fingers is in my book being very silly

its not laziness its just effective use of time, why spend years training one weapon when you can spent it training more efficient and effective methods?

[sanjuro_ronin]

For some the rewards to not justify the time, for others it does.
That's cool, different strokes for different folks.

[Dragonzbane76]

That's cool, different strokes for different folks.

agree... i just wouldn't use it or any of the intricate finger positioning. Not my thing.

simplisity is my master....

[Yum Cha]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokhopkuen
Some systems back up, root and let you run your tender parts in to it, while others form a bridge while coiling and then explode in to the target. I have developed some pretty effective synthesis from both schools of thought.
I tend to "coil and explode" off the bridges that I make/are offered.
Launch it our from about no more that a foot away, preferably closer.

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

I tend to "coil and explode" off the bridges that I make/are offered.
Launch it our from about no more that a foot away, preferably closer.

Sounds pretty much like good Southern Chines Boxing...

I like pulling people onto the strike....

[Yum Cha]

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

For some the rewards to not justify the time, for others it does.
That's cool, different strokes for different folks.

Aren't you supposed to add, "Why, bless your heart?"

[Yum Cha]

Originally Posted by Frost

... its very effective for releasing a grip at close distance.

I found this too, using it to push someone off and break a grip.

-

Sanjuro, concerning the use of PE against pressure points. You have such a good weapon, yet your only weild if to a fraction of its effectiveness.

My personal preference is to land heavy, crashing blows with a standard fist, focussed on the two main knuckles, and to use PE on particular targets that take more precision and less power. Speed being a key concept in there.

I pick the pressure points generally by how lazy you can be and yet the anatomy slides it into place... kinda like kicking between the legs and sliding up the thigh into the cods.

Perhaps if my phoenix was a tough as yours I would think otherwise...