Huo Ma....study finds marijuana for nausea successful in pregnancy

[vikinggoddess]

http://www.mytelus.com/news/article....icleID=2075872

VICTORIA, B.C. (Black Press) - Some people might be shocked at the idea of pregnant women smoking marijuana to deal with the nausea that comes with pregnancy.
But a UK-based medical publication, Journal of Complementary Therapies in Clinical Practice, has taken the idea seriously and published a study conducted by the Vancouver Island Compassion Society on the topic....


That said, Lucas decided to move forward with a survey/study to determine if women who smoked marijuana while they were pregnant found that it dealt with the nausea and vomiting.
The survey shows that 92 per cent of respondents considered marijuana to be either "extremely effective" or "effective" as a therapy for nausea and vomiting (or morning sickness)....

[herb ox]

Controversial, indeed.... the primary investigator reiterated twice against smoking anything during pregnancy.

Perhaps a vaporizer is in order? Seems the inhalation of THC is the fastest and most effective method of delivery. However, the smoke and carbon monoxide proves unhealthful. These new devices vaporize the active ingredient before the plant material begins to combust.

The main counfound I find with this research is the nature of the survey itself - asking pot smokers if they think it helps with just about anything is going to yield high (no pun intended) figures of agreement... otherwise, they wouldn't be smoking de herb to begin with.

Huo Ma Ren is a common item in the Chinese materia medica - however, I have yet to come across any concrete evidence of smoking the 'huo ma hua' (flowering tops)... anybody know of any references to the smoking of cannabis in Chin. medicine?

peace

herb ox

[vikinggoddess]

Originally Posted by herb ox

The main counfound I find with this research is the nature of the survey itself - asking pot smokers if they think it helps with just about anything is going to yield high (no pun intended) figures of agreement... otherwise, they wouldn't be smoking de herb to begin with.

Huo Ma Ren is a common item in the Chinese materia medica - however, I have yet to come across any concrete evidence of smoking the 'huo ma hua' (flowering tops)... anybody know of any references to the smoking of cannabis in Chin. medicine?

I find the juxtaposition of these two objections rather ironic. You are critiquing the study as being biased for it's simplistic approach in asking self medicating mom's if their herb of choice works, and at the same time asking if this has been previously described in Chinese medical classics, which we know are not based on double bind experimentation but similarly looking at what herbs have worked for a given conditition.

[herb ox]

You're right about my critique. However, the classics were most often based upon an herbalist's long term experiences with a substance as prescribed to patients. The present cannabis study looks at an herb often used recreationally, and often accompanied by strong emotional responses about the herb itself...

Don't get me wrong... I'm all for huo ma research and 'experimentation' - however, I'm also all for presenting research that can't be picked apart by critics so easily. Thousand-year old writings documenting use of huo ma do provide better evidence of repeated usage with results, rather than a survey of people who probably already have a love affair with cannabis, in my not-so-humble opinion.

one,

herb ox

[vikinggoddess]

I feel the self-prescription model is just as valid. This is the difference I see between the TCM way and the Wise Woman herbal tradition way. The wise woman herbalist self prescribes based on experience of other women and personal experience. I prefer the model where each person takes care of their own health with herbs.

I do not agree that women using pot for nausea neccessarily have a love affair with it. I think actually most women who smoke pot stop during pregnacy out of either caution or cultural stigmatization of this practice. You will see this point illustrated if you read the following editorial, which is esentially a personal case study.

http://www.mothering.com/articles/pr...marijuana.html
"Medical Marijuana: A Surprising Solution to Severe Morning Sickness
By Erin Hildebrandt
Issue 124 May/June 2004

As is the case for many young women, my indulgence in recreational drugs, including alcohol and caffeine, came to an abrupt halt when my husband and I discovered we were pregnant with our first child. To say we were ecstatic is an understatement. Doctors had told me we might never conceive, yet here we were, expecting our first miracle. I closely followed my doctor’s recommendations. When I began to experience severe morning sickness, I went to him for help. He ran all of the standard tests, then sent me home with the first of many prescription medicines....."

[GeneChing]

moxa smells a lot like pot, so it's almost OT.

Chinese medicine tactic doesn't turn breech babies
Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:13pm EDT
By Amy Norton

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - A traditional Chinese therapy used for turning babies out of the breech position before birth may not be effective, a new study finds.

The study, reported in the journal Obstetrics & Gynecology, tested a tactic known as moxibustion, which uses heat to stimulate a particular acupuncture point in an effort to turn a breech fetus to the head-down position before birth.

Researchers found that the method appeared no more effective than Mother Nature among the 212 women they studied.

In about 3 percent to 5 percent of pregnancies, the fetus is in the breech position near the time of delivery -- meaning the feet or buttocks are closest to the birth canal. Because delivering a baby in this position presents risks, doctors typically perform a cesarean section.

In the weeks before the due date, women can also choose to try an external cephalic version (ECV), where a doctor or midwife uses their hands on the woman's abdomen to encourage the fetus to turn to the head-down position. The method, performed in the 37th week of pregnancy or later, is successful in 30 percent to 80 percent of cases, depending on the center.

Moxibustion has emerged as an alternative. Long used in Chinese medicine, the method involves burning a stick with the herb mugwort and placing it near the little toe to stimulate a particular acupuncture point there.

Some research has suggested moxibustion might be effective; a trial in China, for example, found that the method increased the chances of the fetus turning to the head-down position.

However, some other studies have been unable to replicate that success, and moxibustion remains "controversial" outside of Chinese medicine, according to the researchers on the new study, led by Marie-Julia Guittier of the Geneva University Hospitals in Switzerland.

For their study, the researchers followed 212 women who had a fetus in the breech position between the 34th and 36th week of pregnancy.

Half of the women were randomly assigned to have moxibustion therapy; a midwife trained in acupuncture performed it three times weekly in the hospital, and the women were encouraged to do it at home on all other days. The rest of the women received no therapy and served as control group.

All study participants, however, had the option of undergoing an ECV at the 37th week of pregnancy.

In the end, Guittier's team found, 18 percent of fetuses in the moxibustion group had turned to the head-down position by the time of delivery or a scheduled ECV. In the control group, 16 percent of fetuses had spontaneously turned -- a difference that was not statistically significant.

"To say the least, moxibustion was not as effective as suggested in (the) earlier trial that was conducted in China," co-researcher Dr. Michel Boulvain, also with the Geneva University Hospitals, told Reuters Health in an email. The reasons for the differences in the trials, he added, are unclear.

It's also unclear whether moxibustion has any physiological effects that would help turn a breech fetus.

Boulvain said that some researchers have reported increases in fetal movement during moxibustion sessions, which in theory could be beneficial. But he added that there are no known reasons, based on "traditional physiology," for why moxibustion would work in this context.

Based on the existing evidence, Boulvain said, "the decision in our hospital is to not implement or recommend moxibustion for these women."

SOURCE: Obstetrics & Gynecology, November 2009.

[Andy Miles]

Babies don't need kidney qi difficiency and phlegm in the channels. Weed also causes DNA damage. These same women would be wise to try raw ginger. Da ma for unborn babies is child abuse.


As to the baby turning its really not suprising. You need to know more than a single point to be effective in acupuncture. The way it is done in N. America is more like a distant cousin to acu/moxa in China. In the states people many people cry with any stimulation. In China people differentiate pain and the sensation of Qi/pressure. There are also different reasons for causing a breech baby. The reasons most prevalent today are different from 100 years ago. You have to go more than the brief description of a point to be a TCM doctor.



www.kungfuchengdu.com

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Apart from this guy, I know of know examples in Chinese Medicine where Huo Ma Hua played any significant role. Then again, it may be that it was in such common usage that it simply was a type of smoking passtime. You know, the kind you're supposed to avoid in autumn.

[taai gihk yahn]

Originally Posted by Andy Miles

You need to know more than a single point to be effective in acupuncture. The way it is done in N. America is more like a distant cousin to acu/moxa in China. In the states people many people cry with any stimulation.

you are aware that the study was conducted in Switzerland, right?

[GLW]

Just to be clear...I do not partake of cannabis in any form...

And to clarify an earlier point here...

The most recent studies citing DNA damage from SMOKING marijuana was very specifically about smoking it. The study also pointed out the DNA damage from smoking cigarettes as well. The study was tying the damage to the smoke.

While smoking cannabis is probably the easiest method to get it into your system, there are other methods...as in the notable brownies and even spaghetti sauce with cannabis combined with oregano.

I would say that if they truly want to study the use of the drug, doing so with removing the obvious health risk of inhaling smoke (and having asthma, I can tell you that inhaling ANY form of smoke is not a great thing for MY lungs)...they should use other methods of delivering the cannabinoids instead of smoking it.