New David P Mag article

[sanjuro_ronin]

As I've said before in other threads: I want to be the fanatic. I also want to train with the fanatics. That's why (in my opinion - I know others who can make this work) I have really grown to love small group training.

I find the fanatics are few and far between and that's just fine with me.

Quite correct.
But I think you mean freaks, not fanatics.

[guy b.]

empowered convert of new VT religion is a dangerous and clouded mindset , it usually involves the projection of anger and disappointment of there previous ''religion '' being channeled into a zealots faith into there new VT religion

I thought this was a good post Ernie. Can I ask why do you think there are so many people like this in WSL wing chun? While WSL method is one of the better manifestations of wing chun, there is so much religious zealot behavior that it kind of puts me off. As you say, compare your Philip Bayer (or even Gary Lam, gasp) to a good professional boxer and you see the difference between a coach who can pass on the principles of a system and an actual fighter who can fight. Yet people are still idolising these men as if they are fighting supermen.

This is a real problem with wing chun and traditional martial arts in general- there are so few (if any) real fighters and so everything is distorted. Look at the previous posts where someone was so excited about a wing chun teacher fighting "grapplers" with his bare hands and beating then into submission. This is sad. It is hero worship and it doesn't help anything except the perpetuation of unrealistic expectations and failure.

[jesper]

There are plenty of fighters in WC community.
Its just that they are overshadowed by the huge amount of part time practitioners.

[couch]

I thought this was a good post Ernie. Can I ask why do you think there are so many people like this in WSL wing chun? While WSL method is one of the better manifestations of wing chun, there is so much religious zealot behavior that it kind of puts me off. As you say, compare your Philip Bayer (or even Gary Lam, gasp) to a good professional boxer and you see the difference between a coach who can pass on the principles of a system and an actual fighter who can fight. Yet people are still idolising these men as if they are fighting supermen.

This is a real problem with wing chun and traditional martial arts in general- there are so few (if any) real fighters and so everything is distorted. Look at the previous posts where someone was so excited about a wing chun teacher fighting "grapplers" with his bare hands and beating then into submission. This is sad. It is hero worship and it doesn't help anything except the perpetuation of unrealistic expectations and failure.

While you have a point, you also must recognize that some Traditional Martial Artists don't train for the street-fight, the sparring match, or to handle "grapplers." Some of them train the art to preserve the art, for fitness, stress relief and/or social engagement.

While this is not my MAIN goal for learning WC, nor the types of people I want to train with, I can see why others would want to learn a MA.

Like what has been said in other threads/conversations as of late about that 1%...that's all we need, honestly. If we didn't have all the 'laypeople,' the 'monks' wouldn't be able to eat. And that's okay. And remember, because of the internet and DVD media, we're able to see quite a few people from around the world - but what about the guy who doesn't cry the loudest? What about the instructor without internet presence who teaches in their basement. We'll never know about them...

Just some points...

[sanjuro_ronin]

While you have a point, you also must recognize that some Traditional Martial Artists don't train for the street-fight, the sparring match, or to handle "grapplers." Some of them train the art to preserve the art, for fitness, stress relief and/or social engagement.

One of the worse things to happen to MA in my view, and one of the best.

MA were never designed for those purposes and when they became to focus, something had to give and that something was more often than not, combat effectiveness.
Now, sport systems still keep that to a certain extent because they rely on constant testing in the from of either open competiton or closed competition, t even they are lacking in "cross system" training more often than not, something incidently that was very common and used a great deal in TMA BEFORE they went they way of the "pansy MA".

[sanjuro_ronin]

Say that again, we get judged by the many not the few .

Judge not lest you be judged for the yard stick that you use to measure others is the one that will be used to measure you.

[k gledhill]

There are plenty of fighters in WC community.
Its just that they are overshadowed by the huge amount of part time practitioners.

you can say that again !

[k gledhill]

I thought this was a good post Ernie. Can I ask why do you think there are so many people like this in WSL wing chun? While WSL method is one of the better manifestations of wing chun, there is so much religious zealot behavior that it kind of puts me off. As you say, compare your Philip Bayer (or even Gary Lam, gasp) to a good professional boxer and you see the difference between a coach who can pass on the principles of a system and an actual fighter who can fight. Yet people are still idolising these men as if they are fighting supermen.

This is a real problem with wing chun and traditional martial arts in general- there are so few (if any) real fighters and so everything is distorted. Look at the previous posts where someone was so excited about a wing chun teacher fighting "grapplers" with his bare hands and beating then into submission. This is sad. It is hero worship and it doesn't help anything except the perpetuation of unrealistic expectations and failure.

Guy B that was me , but your taking it out of context . I was implying he [PB] has actually fought with MANY people on a regular basis. Not that yipeee he beat a 'grappler' isnt he wonderful

[guy b.]

Well it is a good thing that he's put his wing chun into practice, better than not.

However you are confused if you view someone like Philip Bayer (a coach), with actual fighters. It is a different game.

[k gledhill]

confused ? how so ? you mean PB isn't a fighter just a coach ?

[Phil Redmond]

http://www.combat-journal.com/site/a...6&depnum=25570

enjoy

Ps. no cracks about the ''Sifu'' tag dropped on me [ inside joke ] Phil

Hmmm, Sifu Ernie Barrios has a nice ring to it.
Phil

[Phil Redmond]

Never happen ,,,, I'll keep it ghetto to end

LOL, your last name translate to "neighborhoods" anyway. Now that's keeping it real.

[Ernie]

I thought this was a good post Ernie. Can I ask why do you think there are so many people like this in WSL wing chun? While WSL method is one of the better manifestations of wing chun, there is so much religious zealot behavior that it kind of puts me off. As you say, compare your Philip Bayer (or even Gary Lam, gasp) to a good professional boxer and you see the difference between a coach who can pass on the principles of a system and an actual fighter who can fight. Yet people are still idolising these men as if they are fighting supermen.

This is a real problem with wing chun and traditional martial arts in general- there are so few (if any) real fighters and so everything is distorted. Look at the previous posts where someone was so excited about a wing chun teacher fighting "grapplers" with his bare hands and beating then into submission. This is sad. It is hero worship and it doesn't help anything except the perpetuation of unrealistic expectations and failure.

I think Saturday morning kung fu theater is to blame !
People create the imagery and need for a '' master '' some cats happily fill the void
so the cycle continues
reality is most people [ most sane people ] don't ever want to fight
but love to embellish on pretend fighting

which is just fine ,, plenty of worse hobbies out there ... just gets strange when they mix it up and compare it to cats that really are professional fighters

or the ultimate marketing slogan .... my style is better then your style because my big toe points 2 degrees more to the left and it's the original style from a 2,000,000 year old saber tooth cave man monk




Phil don't get me started haha



ALL

the difference between a '' real fighter '' some one who is currently fighting as a profession
and a '' coach '' some one who teaches the training methods of fighting based on there experience and research

only in the twisted world of kung fu fantasy do people expect there coaches to be ''fighters'' in there elderly years ..... of course because of there magic chi and great story telling skills

this would make an interesting topic of discussion .... something i had written articles on before ,,, never understood the confusion or superman iconic build up

[sanjuro_ronin]

only in the twisted world of kung fu fantasy do people expect there coaches to be ''fighters'' in there elderly years ..... of course because of there magic chi and great story telling skills

Ernie has chi blasted to correct and gave it a turkish oil check !

[guy b.]

Ernie, I agree. It confuses the hell out of me. I've never been one for the old chop socky kung fu movies so maybe that's the reason.

WSL method I find a bit worse than some other wing chun in this respect, but most WC is pretty terrible on the hero worship side of things. It is good to like your teacher and to respect him, but to pretend a middle aged or old out of shape man is the equivalent of a current K1, UFC or boxing champion is sheer insanity. I find it embarrassing when adults have these kind of views.

There are good coaches and bad coaches. Appreciate your coach for what he is: a coach. He isn't and never was the master of the universe at fighting, but he might just have the ability to teach you a great kung fu method. It is two different things.

WSL himself, when he became famous and found lots of followers, was not a fighter. He was a coach. He had some real fight experience in the past which made him a rarity in wing chun, but his fighting days were over.