Liberals Beware!

[kwaichang]

Screw the data CARRY period who cares if it is lawful or not do it it is our right to bear arms if the Gov tries to take that right away get rid of them. It is all about control you can and you cant that is what all these "carry permits are for" then they will be able to control what is going on and who will have them.
I have seen so many rights ripped away and it continues. These "LAW" makers continue to deprive us of what is rightfully ours FREEDOM. Its going to get worse until we are a Communist or Fascist state hood. If enough Americans join togethor we can win and they cant afford to jail everyone who would do it any way.
Side note: If the parent that smokes is truly the best parent then why cant they have full Parenting custody with the child ?? Because they say you cant what is right with that ??? KC

[Scott R. Brown]

Because I still have eyes? I'll find some "scientific data" to refute your evidence. I have some here on my database here at work, but I'd get hauled off to court if I posted it to the public. I'll find some online sources for you, if I have the time. Hell, I'll get them from an anti-gun, anti-NRA website...that should do the trick.

I will eagerly await your evidence.

In the mean time we may continue our discussion. If we presume that the evidence you provide is as equally compelling as the evidence that I have provided we have the problem of deciding which conclusion most accurately reflects the true conditions.

Since both sides of the argument are vehemently committed to their view we may find it difficult to determine which conclusion reflects the true condition most accurately. Indeed it is probable that no agreement will be reached. If this is the case it cannot be reasonable demonstrated that a society where only the criminals have firearms is a safer society, make no mistake criminals will still have firearms as is demonstrate in Russian, Washington D.C. and other regions where firearms are restricted.

In this circumstance we must err on behalf of maintaining the rights we currently posses. We must accept that the rights guaranteed us by the U. S. Constitution to be the ruling authority. The government may not infringe upon the rights of its citizens to keep and bear arms.

Even if compelling evidence may be presented that unequivocally demonstrates that citizens are safer in a society where only criminals possess firearms, a totally ludicrous proposition to begin with, proponents of firearms control must pass a constitutional amendment in order to infringe on rights the constitution guarantees. This is a nearly impossible task to accomplish.

Any way you slice it you cannot win the argument. Your decision is based upon what makes you feel better and not based upon facts.

[Oso]

Anyone else using Crimson Trace?

http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Pro...5/Default.aspx

I don't like the idea of hanging something off the end of the frame but $300 plus will take some saving up.

[Yao Sing]

Sheeyat, legal guns in the street aren't any better than illegal guns in the street. Sad state of affairs, where we modernize a clause in our Constitution, which was drafted to protect Americans in an era where there wasn't stable economics, govt., military, or police, and the threat of invasion was still imminent.

So why do you need a concealed carry permit? 'fraid of Za-Germans?

I need the concealed permit to keep from getting busted for carrying my firearm. I'm sure you meant why the need to carry a firearm.

So you're thinking personal firearms are only needed to defend from invasion? Do you know that the police have no obligation to protect you from harm? They only catch the bad guys after the fact.

Do you know how long it takes to get a cop to your location when someone is assaulting you? Think they'll get there before your last breath?

Drugs are in every neighborhood, and purchasing a gun won't change that.

Meaning what? Are guns supposed to prevent all crimes now or something? While they won't have any bearing on illegal drug sales they will keep you from being a target of the users looking for fast cash to support their habit.

Gun ownership is a psychological thing, and not much more. It's a power issue; it's a sexual issue; it's a security issue. It's rarely any kind of external issue. Unless you intend to use it (as in military, police, or criminal endeavors), a gun is just a prop that bolsters certain insecurities. (Note: I'm not taking potshots at you on this one, just analyzing the gun's role in contemporary society).

Where are you getting this from? My opinion you're just parroting some BS repot you read somewhere (but I will agree with it being security issue).

And anyone NOT intending (or being prepared) to use it shouldn't be carrying one in the first place. When I carry I fully intend to pull the trigger if needed.

The question is: do you intend to use your gun?

Yes. Does that bother you for some reason? How about if I was in the neighborhood when your mom was being assaulted?

And--will using your gun improve the situation in your neighborhood and give you better personal security? Will it eradicate the gun/drug problem? Or, will it run up a localized arms race?

It's already been proven to improve neighborhoods, improve personal security and has not created an arms race anywhere concealed carry has been legalized.

So tell me, why do you keep thinking gun ownership will somehow stop illegal drug sales? You keep bringing this up but nobody on the pro-gun ownership/concealed carry side makes that claim. I think you need to expand your reading choices.

You're entitled to your opinion but it would be much more tolerable if it was based on real life info and not this clearly illogical anti-gun propaganda.

[rogue]

Anyone else using Crimson Trace?

http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Pro...5/Default.aspx

I don't like the idea of hanging something off the end of the frame but $300 plus will take some saving up.

I figure if I can't hit something that's 20 feet away a laser sight won't help.

[Oso]

lol, yea...besides, i didn't initially see that their current model won't work on mine because of the ambi slide release.


but, still, it's a cool trick.

[Black Jack II]

A lot of peeps try and use the laser sight with the low light, point and shoot methods, under extreme stress the main point is are you going to even notice the beam.

Most "social gunfire" self defense situations are from something like seven feet away or less. We are talking h2h range.

[Oso]

good point.

but how can I get to do that evil laugh when the fool looks down and sees the red light on his chest??????????????????

[yu shan]

Oso

So I guess you missed post #28. I am curious, how much did you spend on this firearm?

[Oso]

sorry bro, I did miss it in all the other stuff.

I paid $510 for it. It lists at $640 and this shop had a sticker on it for $540 but S and I bought both at the same time so he marked them off $30 each.

We'll definitely go shoot the next time you are over.

[Oso]

Well I guess any area has it`s bad neighborhoods, and I did have a prostitute try to chase me down once on a trip to Asheville. But A`town is like stepping back into the 60`s, with all the long hairs and peace and love, not to mention the smell of burning rope! And your sig other did spark this interest first eh? Anyway, I say get them while you can and hold on tight. Take me to the range next time I`m over.

The kid that got killed down the road was killed during a drug deal. He was 14 and the shooter was 18. During the 4th quarter of 07 we had something like 6 homicides...not a lot by big city standards but we're only about 70k.

There have been two gun incidents at the city HS in this time frame as well. One of them with shots fired.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Do you know how long it takes to get a cop to your location when someone is assaulting you? Think they'll get there before your last breath?

Do you think you'll get your gun out fast enough? I doubt it. Are you going to outgun, yourself, a couple of hoods on the corner? I doubt it.

Meaning what? Are guns supposed to prevent all crimes now or something? While they won't have any bearing on illegal drug sales they will keep you from being a target of the users looking for fast cash to support their habit.

WTF city do you live in? Of course it won't. Couple of cops got killed in a mall parking lot about 1 mile down the street from HQ here about a month or two ago on my shift.

Where are you getting this from? My opinion you're just parroting some BS repot you read somewhere (but I will agree with it being security issue).

All weapons protect certain insecurities, and bolster others. It is a sexual thing, in that it's an issue of empowerment and dominance.

And anyone NOT intending (or being prepared) to use it shouldn't be carrying one in the first place. When I carry I fully intend to pull the trigger if needed.

denananananadenanananadenananana.....Batman!

Yes. Does that bother you for some reason? How about if I was in the neighborhood when your mom was being assaulted?

She wouldn't need you. Her boyfriend has a concealed carry permit, and he's always strapped. And no, that doesn't exactly make me feel much better either.

It's already been proven to improve neighborhoods, improve personal security and has not created an arms race anywhere concealed carry has been legalized.

LOL......

So tell me, why do you keep thinking gun ownership will somehow stop illegal drug sales? You keep bringing this up but nobody on the pro-gun ownership/concealed carry side makes that claim. I think you need to expand your reading choices.

Perhaps to pro-NRA websites or the Million Mom March? Um...no thanks. I'll take the uninterested and non-partisan viewpoints.

You're entitled to your opinion but it would be much more tolerable if it was based on real life info and not this clearly illogical anti-gun propaganda.

I'm not anti-gun. Guns are valuable tools. They can be used for hunting, military, law enforcement. I just don't think they're valuable tools in the hands of the ignorant and unweeting (criminal and citizen). Sadly, this constitutes the better part of American society. It's no unknown fact that guns, like tobacco, are behind a lot of our political funding campaigns. Their interests, as corporate and political hegemons, are being protected to such a ridiculous level that gun control is getting bashed left and right and overturned left and right, because of this paranoid state agenda.

A gun ban wouldn't be a bad idea, IMO. That, and a cellphone ban.

[rogue]

good point.

but how can I get to do that evil laugh when the fool looks down and sees the red light on his chest??????????????????

Do what some kid did in my old neighborhood did, just use a laser pointer. I got home late one night and the kid painted my front door. He must have gotten a big laugh when I did a dive over the railing and into my bushes. At least my reactions were good.

[Oso]

when I was bouncing in the 90's it became a cool gag to bring a laser pointer in to the bars and tag people with it. I about broke one kids arm when he didn't want to voluntarily surrender it.

besides, I decided I would try to copy The Rock's lifted eyebrow thing combined with a wink and a wry twist to the mouth.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Any way you slice it you cannot win the argument. Your decision is based upon what makes you feel better and not based upon facts.

My decision isn't based on "what makes me feel better", but when I considered your argument last night, I can see that you're probably right on this bolded statement. There probably isn't a way to resolve the issue in my favor.

I would contend that it is the duty of the Constitution to impinge on many "so-called" gun rights, however.

I considered posting some BS from the MMM website, but I concede that you win this argument. I'm not convinced it's a victory predicated on reason, but more on bureaucratic impotence.