combat aikido mma

[Black Jack II]

Here are some randori clips from Jason DeLucia's combat aikido series for mma.

Thought this may be interesting after the aikido topic on the main forum. From what I have read I believe he is a believer in using aikido principles in a mma format and thought some may either enjoy this or hate it.

Personally, I don't like almost anything about aikido as a fighting art, I don't believe it is one and at times it can even stretch over into the realm of an amer-asian delusion, could it have some good training tools, some grease for the wheel, some believe yes and that is why I present this.

......and for the love of god will someone tell me why they never put up there freakin hands to guard there face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVbS0xHCerw

[Fu-Pow]

How is this different than Judo?

FP

[MasterKiller]

No kidding. Where are all the Aikido wristlocks?

[Ben Gash]

I counted 4 aikido techniques in the whole thing, the rest is textbook Judo, and much of it contrary to Aiki principles. Still, it bore more resembalnce to Aikido than his 5 animals Kung Fu does to what the rest of us consider 5 animals Kung Fu

[Knifefighter]

How is this different than Judo?

It's not... the more realistic you make it, the more it will resemble Judo or Sambo.

Working in a realistic fashion against other skilled opponents with a gi will look much the same, no matter what the style. That is the reason Sambo and Judo look so similar even though they have different rule sets.

Same thing when you take away the gi and add in striking. All styles, no matter what their origin or intent, will look pretty much like MMA fighting.

BTW, that's not randori. That is one guy doing a demo with another guy... although in a slightly more realistic fashion than most aikido demos.

[lkfmdc]

It's not... the more realistic you make it, the more it will resemble Judo or Sambo.

wow, sounds like what I said on the other aikido thread

I'm curious though when and where Deluca learned his "aikido"? His stories about learning "5 animal" in Boston never seemed to pan out

[Shaolin Wookie]

Whenever you see a "TMA's" going toe-to-toe without outside training principles and regimens, they generally look sloppy and uncontrolled, and we say....that doesn't look like kung-fu. It's because their techniques are sloppy, and often uncontrolled and out of rhythm, and out of place in modern fights. But then we see MT fighters, MMA fighters, etc, and they have pretty good control and structure during full contact fights. Good MT (pro thai's, at least) fighters can keep grapplers at bay with their teeps (mostly because they're so friggin' fast with their kicks). The more you train to fight in a reasonable and fluent manner, the more you look like everyone else that trains to fight realistically. There was a dude on this forum, forget who, who once said that his master told him: "fighting should look like fighting." That's the truth.

[Ben Gash]

It's not that it looks like Judo that's upsetting people, if he was using his bodyweight more, getting in tighter etc then we'd all be going "that's really cool and interesting". The problem is that he's doing Judo.

[Fu-Pow]

I just figured out what makes it "combat" aikido.....rock n roll sound track, cool spikey hair and an expensive dojo.....hai!!!

[Knifefighter]

It's not that it looks like Judo that's upsetting people, if he was using his bodyweight more, getting in tighter etc then we'd all be going "that's really cool and interesting". The problem is that he's doing Judo.

Judo is aikido, only done with realistic applications against resisting, skilled opponents.

[hafoc]

It's not... the more realistic you make it, the more it will resemble Judo or Sambo.

Working in a realistic fashion against other skilled opponents with a gi will look much the same, no matter what the style. That is the reason Sambo and Judo look so similar even though they have different rule sets.

Same thing when you take away the gi and add in striking. All styles, no matter what their origin or intent, will look pretty much like MMA fighting.

BTW, that's not randori. That is one guy doing a demo with another guy... although in a slightly more realistic fashion than most aikido demos.

Yeh, I have to agree this is generally true. Over the years, I've seen quite a few Chinese stylists fight (I'm not a Chinese guy myself) and they end up looking like everybody else -- who have migrated to the MMA way of doing things in a real dust up. Same with aikido: it ends up looking a lot like judo/sambo/chin na.

BTW, there is an interesting vid on youtube I stumbled across a while back showing a real full contac MMA match between an aikido guy and a striker. It was filmed in Russia. The aikido guy does pretty well, considering he probably never fought a full contact match before. Sorry I can't give you the URL.

[sanjuro_ronin]

He is emphasising the "irimi" principle more than any other, the "aiki" is there, once and awhile.

[Mr Punch]

No time, but a couple of brief comments.

......and for the love of god will someone tell me why they never put up there freakin hands to guard there face.

The classical reason is that because aikijutsu was practised to simulate being attacked in your house when defenseless/unarmed (hence the suwari waza) and because it comes from sword principles, and Japanese swordsmanship, same as Western fencing to a lesser extent and German swordsmanship among others, would often leave an opening to lead the opponent in. It has little place in modern unarmed MA unless you're really ****ing hard/quick!

Aikidoka who prefer the pre-war versions or Yoshinkan for example will start everything with a strike, and will work any throw/lock/kuzushi on the arm(s) that come up to defend, not wait for someone to attack you and then try to catch the punch or whatever.

How is this different than Judo?

Because it's aikido? What's your question?

No kidding. Where are all the Aikido wristlocks?

For the ****ing four-hundredth time, even most aiki-fairies don't actually advocate running in and doing a wristlock on a free arm that's just tried to punch you (they may not advocate it but unfortunately many still practice that way). A wristlock/armlock should always come after atemi: same as most grappling (or, for example a lot of head-high kicks that also need a set up), you don't just grab willy-nilly, you have to set it up, and the aiki locking waza are set up by striking first.

He's not setting anything up with strikes first, presumably because they're not sparring/competing.

And BTW, there are at least as many throwing techs as locking techs in aiki, and the locking techs that you're not going to get without setting them up will go straight into a throw... all locking techs can be used as throws if the opportunity's there.

I counted 4 aikido techniques in the whole thing, the rest is textbook Judo, and much of it contrary to Aiki principles.

I'll go through this when I have time and tell you exactly what techs he's doing when. If you only counted 4 aiki techs, I would suggest your aiki 'experience' was even crapper than most. And please, feel free to break down what he's doing at what times that is contrary to what aiki principles. Otherwise, it's just hot air.

It's not... the more realistic you make it, the more it will resemble Judo or Sambo.

Judo is aikido, only done with realistic applications against resisting, skilled opponents.

wow, sounds like what I said on the other aikido thread

Me too. Because it's true!

I'm curious though when and where Deluca learned his "aikido"? His stories about learning "5 animal" in Boston never seemed to pan out

Yeah, I've often wondered that, but not enough to be bothered checking out his site. This looks more like aiki than some other clips I've seen that he claims are 'combat aiki'.

BTW, that's not randori. That is one guy doing a demo with another guy... although in a slightly more realistic fashion than most aikido demos.

Sure. It's very light resistance, and I don't think the other bloke always knows exactly what's coming, or that De Lucia knows exactly what he's gonna do, but it isn't randori by any means.

He is emphasising the "irimi" principle more than any other, the "aiki" is there, once and awhile.

That's just what he should be emphasizing. Prewar Ueshiba insisted on going directly and aggressively in, and only doing tenkan to get kuzushi (eg, through levering or uprooting or crushing) when you meet too much resistance. This makes good sense IMO and is shared by a lot of MA.

I get kind of bored of repeating this **** over and over again... Where's Samurai Jack when you need him!?

[sanjuro_ronin]

That's just what he should be emphasizing. Prewar Ueshiba insisted on going directly and aggressively in, and only doing tenkan to get kuzushi (eg, through levering or uprooting or crushing) when you meet too much resistance. This makes good sense IMO and is shared by a lot of MA.

My post wasn't a critique, it was showing that what he was doing, had Aikido principles.

[Mr Punch]

I know. I was agreeing, reiterating and elaborating a little. The line at the bottom was a conclusion to threads about aikido where I always repeat myself... not a direct response to you. Sorry.