when a utopia fails

[Black Jack II]

Other than that, BJ, I'm ashamed at you for believing the press so much...

Concerning the UK I really think this quote holds water."In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

The few reports I showcased mostly have to do with how a problem is being addressed in a really absurd and childish fashion, at least imho anyway. I know its not the wild west but to ignore evidence from multiple sources, and yes data can always be skewed to some degree, on how bad the situation of growing violence and government control is getting in the UK is not the best course of action either.

The strictest gun laws on the planet have effectively disarmed law abiding citizens, allowing criminals to run amok with illegally owned guns, knives and even fake guns. Instead of a gun-free society, they have created a situation where guns are more useful and valuable to criminals than ever before. When criminals are becoming more certain that citizens have no effective means to resist an armed attack its just going to keep getting more insane.

Let's not even add in the liberal criminal justice system over there to the mix....

At least Britain deserves credit for thoroughness. I mean how stunning is it that they are looking at banning chief cooking knives and bb guns for lawfull citizens, if you can not see how nutty that type of group think is, well than there is not much we can really debate about.

Look the bottom line is that laws against self-defense have sent Englishmen to jail who should of been hailed as the good guy. Instead of treating there citizens with respect and repealing a lot of these coutnerproductive laws, politicians prefer to pile on more laws about knives, air guns and toys.

I don't agree with the nanny state, but allowing more knives doesn't seem to make sense.

It's not about allowing more knives, its about letting a person have access to there natural right to self protection. You think the punk criminal is going to care about the fact that in the UK its illegal to walk around with a knife?

That kind of faith in human nature is not a wise lane to drive in.

[xcakid]

Ban, bannings!!!


Seriously though. If these dumba$$es lawmakers get busy enforcing the law rather than making more laws, this world would be a better place. Take an example from Singapore. You graffiti a wall, your butt is getting caned. Other countries, you steal, you get your hand chopped off. You kill someone, you should be killed too. That happens here in the US or UK, let's see how much crime we will have. Juvenille crime can also be curtailed by having parent suffer the saem consequence as their juvenille. I bet we get some good parenting then.

Instead they listen to bleeding liberal voices saying "oh have mercy with him/her, he/she is a product of a broken home/lack of education/disadvantage up bringing, and beside killing people is wrong....blah blah. Judges never give max sentences, lawyers gets rich, politician get richer from being in office making stupid laws to justify their existance in office.

Another example of government telling people what to do and treating them like children. I bet Hitler is so proud in his grave right now. And so will many other dead dictators. Sad people are actually welcoming being ruled and told WTF to do.

[Ben Gash]

But the problem Blackjack is that these are not news reports about government policy or how policy is driven in the UK, most of them are the views of private citizens.
On the given right to defend yourself, a knife isn't really that useful for self defence. If you're against an unarmed attacker, then it's HIGHLY improbable that you'll be able to argue reasonable force in self defence, and if they've got a weapon it's HIGHLY unlikely that you'll be able to free and use your own knife before you've been seriously injured. You also have the added complication of risking being stabbed with your own knife.
Why can't we carry knives? Well, because if you've got a knife then you're likely to use it. Fights over spilled drinks would routinely lead to fatal stabbings. That's hardly desirable, is it?
You haven't been able to carry a gun for self defence in Britain since I believe 1928, and gun crime has only become a problem in the last 5-10 years, so it's probably not our firearms laws that are the problem.
As for your statistics, A) gun crime in Britain is so low that it wouldn't actually take a big increase in the number of crimes to crate a 50% increase and B) New York has less violent crime than London IF you count bar fights the same as fatal shootings.
I work in the ER of our equivalent of a county general, and in the last 4 years I think we've had 3 fatal stabbings and 2 fatal beatings through the department. In total I've seen less than 20 stabbings, and half of them have been self inflicted. Compare this with the experiences of one of my American counterparts, and the difference will be stark.
Finally, I really object to someone from a country with an appalling record of civil rights abuses against it's own people, where the majority feel afraid of the police, that executes more people than the rest of the developed world put together, THAT HAS THE PATRIOT ACT!!!!!!!!getting on their high horse and making superior statements about the civil libertoes and protection that I actually have more of.

[David Jamieson]

why let yourselves be trolled by this guy?

everyone knows that the home of senseless violence in the democratic world is the good old USA. More knife deaths, more murders, more handguns deaths, just more murder and death than pretty much anywhere else in the developed nations.

But I guess when you're that bad, it probably makes john birch society members like bj2 there feel better, because then they don't feel all alone swimming in their cesspool. So, they try to point out faults elsewhere as if that is gonna solve any of their own problems.

[Black Jack II]

most of them are the views of private citizens.

Exactly, there is nothing more honest than that.

On the given right to defend yourself, a knife isn't really that useful for self defence

I totally disagree Ben. The knife is one of the most natural tools one can use in a self defense context. It's ingrained in our collective psychological matrix on how to cut and stab.

If you're against an unarmed attacker, then it's HIGHLY improbable that you'll be able to argue reasonable force in self defence

Myth. It all depends on the context of the specific situation. At least here it depends on the situation, you defend yourself in the U.K. with a blade and it seems to be much different no matter the context.

and if they've got a weapon it's HIGHLY unlikely that you'll be able to free and use your own knife before you've been seriously injured.

Weapon deployment is a whole another topic in itself, but its better to have access to a tool when you need it and not have one at all when the chips fall
down.

You also have the added complication of risking being stabbed with your own knife.

I hate when people use that old line, what is your better bet, to take a victims mindset, curl up in a ball, pray for big brother to help you and maybe die.

Why can't we carry knives? Well, because if you've got a knife then you're likely to use it. Fights over spilled drinks would routinely lead to fatal stabbings. That's hardly desirable, is it?

So your saying the people of the U.K. are temperamental children??

We are talking about law abiding citizens here Ben, people who choose a reasobable resonse in kind, not the minority of people that use a weapon out of its context. Not to mention that U.K. violent crime using bladed weapons is on the rise with the no carry ban anyway, so how extactly is this law helping out at all?

Finally, I really object to someone from a country with an appalling record of civil rights abuses against it's own people, where the majority feel afraid of the police, that executes more people than the rest of the developed world put together, THAT HAS THE PATRIOT ACT!!!!!!!!getting on their high horse and making superior statements about the civil libertoes and protection that I actually have more of

Sorry man, I hate to burst you bubble but you don't have more civil liberty. You have much less. You just like to pretend you have because its easier to submit to control than to fight back for what is naturally yours anyway.

[David Jamieson]

you can't possibly burst his bubble because you refuse to come out of yours.


you probably haven't even been outside of the usa. maybe not even your mom's basement.

[Black Jack II]

LOL,

Yes, I have been to the U.K. and I loved every minute of it.

Go back to playing rock-god

[FuXnDajenariht]

lol oy vey. this everyone has to arm themselves to live in a peaceful society nonsense again.

oh the irony...

[PangQuan]

what is this UK vs. USA?

strange.

well i do know that i am allowed to carry a weapon for self protection if i so choose, which i have done and likely will do again when i am in an area, or a possible situation where i may need my weapon.

ive drawn a knife 3 times and saved my ass with it 3 times.

me being able to carry a weapon ensures that i am given the ability to fight for myself.

All I ever ask of life is to be given a fighting chance in all that i do.

If some ******* is gonna pull some sh!t on me, i would like to be able to fall back on myself and not just stand there and take oppression from some thug with a blade.

No. I am glad that I am able to fend for myself on equal terms with an aggressor.

You may say, well you guys have more crime and deaths from attackers with weapons. Ya, so what? They havent got me, and thanks to my rights I can do everything in my power to make sure no one does.

I am fit, and i am a survivor. Survival of the fittest, and a prosperous life to the strong.

[FuXnDajenariht]

I am fit, and i am a survivor. Survival of the fittest, and a prosperous life to the strong.

....will be the downfall of any society.

[SanHeChuan]

....will be the downfall of any society.

Actually thats how societies are created, They kick the **** out of the last one and take over.

For you see,

J/K

[Liokault]

I work in the ER of our equivalent of a county general, and in the last 4 years I think we've had 3 fatal stabbings and 2 fatal beatings through the department. In total I've seen less than 20 stabbings, and half of them have been self inflicted. Compare this with the experiences of one of my American counterparts, and the difference will be stark.:

And Ben lives in what is in the UK considered a "rough" town.


I'm a working class kind of guy and I dont know of anyone who wants to carry a knife for defence.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Actually thats how societies are created, They kick the **** out of the last one and take over.

For you see,

J/K

lol thats priceless. that was worth the price of the DVD.

[JetLi'sFearless]

Umm, knives aren't banned here, and nowhere in that article does it say they will be. Neither are identity cards compulsory (and in all likelihood probably won't be), and our DNA bank has substantially less content than the US equivalent. You need to stop visiting those Illinois militia websites man.
As for why violence is increasing? Difficult to say. There's been a big surge in "black on black" violence in the large cities, and again it's difficult to put a finger conclusively on why. In the last ten years there's been a big increase in kids just "hanging around" in large groups. This has led to a rising gang culture, which has then led to increased violence. There's also been a massive increase in the number of children being excluded from education for behavioural issues, which then feeds the problem, but is also indicative of it.
It's unpopular to say so at the highest level, but it's probably in large part due to the decline of our social norms. Families don't live together, people don't know their neighbours, and people don't feel any responsibility to one and other. However it seems to be a very complex and multi-layered issue.

its not just in the uk that black on black violence has been icnreasing but in the u.s it has been going on for years with the cripps and bloods war, I mean I heard some stats that there were more gund eaths in l.a (mostly black on black or hispanic gangs involved) than the Vietnam war. In Africa it also ahs been going on for a long time and even genocide in some parts of africa, I also heard africans sold their own slaves to the europeans the europeans didnt actually take them by force they traded for them. Whats funny is that I live in a more conservative town thats also a college town in ca (not too conservative but mroe republican than democrat in general) that has alot of poor whites in it, but the major gang in this town are the nortenos 9despite the fact there are not many hispanics here and alot of poor whites).

[Radhnoti]

"Why can't we carry knives? Well, because if you've got a knife then you're likely to use it."

Conversely, here in the U.S. every state that's passed "concealed carry" legislation has enjoyed a decrease in violent crime.


Everyone who believes criminals will choose to break OTHER laws, but not that one cursed law disarming them...I don't even know how to address you. It's naivity to the nth degree.

Laws to disarm will only disarm honest citizenry.