Wing Chun Critiques

[Liddel]

Interesting - i wouldnt have guessed that Dale

In that situation it sounds like you believe it hasnt had a negitive effect then (you would know better than i).

IMO though the effect has been quite different on VT.

Im not sure from your post if your belieif is that VT's - principles, techniques, tactics and training are NOT sound, hence the difference in outcomes ?

[Knifefighter]

Im not sure from your post if your belieif is that VT's - principles, techniques, tactics and training are NOT sound, hence the difference in outcomes ?

Ha-ha... trying to set me up on that one?

I have no idea what the circumstances are in WC in terms of less experienced people teaching and how that would affect whether or not the system was "watered down". I can only speak from my exposure to that situation in BJJ.

From a theoretical standpoint, I don't think it should have an too much of an effect if the underlying fundamentals are sound.

How long should it take before someone is qualified to teach WC?

Can you point to specific examples of experienced WC teachers turning out good WC fighters vs. less experienced instructors who have failed along these lines?

[anerlich]

Liddel,

Dale is of course correct about BJJ. When I started BJJ, there were two Australian Black Belts, both in a city 1000 kilometres away from me. You had maybe five purples in each capital city. I'm glad those guys were teaching then otherwise we'd have had nobody (they are all very good black belts now).

The BB I train with now told me that he regards purple as an initial instructor level. Also, you'd take the same sort of time to get to purple in BJJ as you would to get to an instructor level in most WC systems anyway, maybe longer.

Even a relatively low-level practitioner can teach them without "diluting" the art.

I dunno. We had a guy in my school who was keen to teach people BJJ, despite the fact that he couldn't even state the sequence to take in the basic under the leg pass in the right order. My instructor (a purple) found out he was charging people more for a private lesson than our local black belt does. He told the guy not to do it any more, then found out he was still doing it and kicked him out.

In BJJ, you have people who wrestle against other people all the time teaching. Most instructors will be only to happy to demonstrate their skills by rolling with you.

In TMA's you can have theorists teaching other theorists for multiple generations. It doesn't have to be like that, but often it is.

[Liddel]

How long should it take before someone is qualified to teach WC?

In my view (which is obviously passed down from my Sifu) 8K hours approx.
Similar to an apprenticeship in a trade.

Can you point to specific examples of experienced WC teachers turning out good WC fighters vs. less experienced instructors who have failed along these lines?

No i cant, nothing documented, nothing verifiable from your POV, just my own personal experiences having visited almost every VT school in my area.

Ive just met some people with some very exaggerated ideas about whats realistic and whats not with regard to using what they teach in a realistic - preasure situation.

[Airdrawndagger]

Ok, I took the bait...

As far as I can tell, the "problem" with VT is not in the mechanics, techs, or forms. Its in the training curriculum. Take Boxing for example: People who learn how to box have their calistenics, punch a heavy bag, speed bag etc, and learn the techs.(how to punch) after learning the basics, they take what they learn and apply it(strap up, get into the ring and start swinging). Muay Thai Fighters train in much the same way, as do BJJ except they grapple in stead of throw punches.

A lot of VT schools get to wrapped up in the forms, drills, and techs that they neglect to apply what they have learned in the ring(spar). Its all in the application of what you learn and how it translates to more realistic circumstances. How good would a boxer be if he only punched the heavy and speed bag and worked on body mechanics in front of a mirror? He'd get his block knocked off.
Why would VT be any different? It is a fighting art, go out and fight for God sakes!
As far as the art of VT it is, in my opinion flawless, but if you can not apply what you learn under real pressure, then you are only doing half of what is required to become proficent.
It cracks me up evertime I go to class I get people that are generally nice people, but they come to a place to learn how to defend themselves using nothing but there bare hands but dont want to really punch or be punched.
I mean how strange is that? Its like learning everything there is to know about surfing but your affraid of the water!