Economic State of Shaolin Temple today

[GeneChing]

It's been a while since I've seen that doc though. I remember admiring her lohanquan, but that's about it. I've put that documentary behind me, so my memory of it isn't that clear right now. Anyways, good to hear Zhang sr. had a pleasant 60th. His is a fascinating story. But then, there's a ton of fascinating stories at Shaolin.

I'm going to Disneyland tomorrow. Seriously. I'll check into this Mickey Mouse issue.

[lunghushan]

I dunno. What do I know about Shaolin? I've never been there. From the various pictures, movies and things it looks like the monks at the major temples just put on uniforms for show, and go home to houses, TVs, VCRs, and a lot of them have wives and kids.

Monks aren't supposed to have all that stuff, and families, are they? But what do I know.

[GeneChing]

Well, I did cross paths with Mickey and pondered his 'reality'. I'll say this - Mickey is real enough for countless children just like many Shaolin monks are real enough for countless tourists, spectators and beginners. There are only a few performers that are permitted to play Mickey, or Pluto (who snuck up on me from behind and startled me enough that I knocked over a little kid ) or especially Ariel. Ahh, yes, Ariel. She's another story entirely. Is she as innocent and wholesome in private life as she appears? We can only fantasize. But back to the analogy, all of these performers are very skilled at what they do in order to get that job. In a similar fashion, if one is to adopt the perspective that all Shaolin monks are parallel to Disneyland characters, there's a tremendous amount of skill therein. Whether they are 'real' or 'fake' could concievably be overshadowed by the very notion of what it might take to portray a Shaolin monk. Shaolin temple is not like the movies where there are wires, retakes and CGI. And I can attest that challenges matches are still fought there quite regularly. Even if they were just performers, they are superior to most martial artists simply because they have to perform this role so often.

Now I certainly won't deny the existance of 'performance' monks. In fact, I was one of the first to coin that phrase. Clearly, there are many at Shaolin who don robes and are not monks at all. When the festivals come, there are literally thousands in robes. There are only a few hundred monks at most, and most of them are wuseng. The devout Buddhist monks are not very accessible to tourists, by their very nature. They are there, but they are surrounded and greatly outnumbered. Does this make Shaolin valid or not as a genuine temple? How many 'real' monks do you need? Remember the lesson of the Hui Neng and how he became the sixth patriarch. Where did the dust alight then?

It's really ironic to me when someone says "In China these days everything is about money." Is it so different in America?

[lunghushan]

Originally Posted by GeneChing

And I can attest that challenges matches are still fought there quite regularly.

That's cool. There's no legal implications to that? If a foreigner has a challenge match will they get into trouble?

Does this make Shaolin valid or not as a genuine temple? How many 'real' monks do you need? Remember the lesson of the Hui Neng and how he became the sixth patriarch. Where did the dust alight then?

I have no idea. I guess 1 monk would do it. Do you really think there is 1 monk at Shaolin who is there for Buddhism and not for commercial reasons or because they don't have any other skills than teaching martial arts or hanging out?

It's really ironic to me when someone says "In China these days everything is about money." Is it so different in America?

No, but I guess that's the point is that the China of 200 years ago or whatever is gone.

[GeneChing]

...but this is the martial arts world. Challenges don't usually go there unless someone is seriouly hurt and usually things end with a bloody nose or a knock out. It really depends upon who you challenge. But just to give you an example, remember those 80 registered schools in the area? They have to coordinate the weekly day off because Dengfeng doesn't want rival schools to be out on the same day. When that happens, there's always fights. I'm told it's a weird logistical nightmare.

As for genuine monks, there are several. I've met more than a few. There are hundreds of fakes too, and I had to get past them to get to the genuine ones, but that's really not that hard. You just got to know the right questions. Many westerners go looking for 'real' monks and don't know the first thing about monks or Buddhism, so how could they even begin to find what they're looking for? To be frank, I've had the same problem in many spiritual centers. One of the worst places was Bodh Gaya. I literally had to beat back the tourist scammers there. It was one of the most intense tourist abuse situations I've ever been in, short of Jamaica, where at more than a few moments, I felt physically threatened and feared for my life. At the same time, Bodh Gaya was amazing and I had some very profound moments there. I'll never forget meditating beside the diamond seat - it was so powerful.

the China of 200 years ago or whatever is gone.

The U.S.A. of 200 years ago is gone too. Remember, America is only a little older than 200 years now. If you were to ask about the America of 250 years ago, well then, where would that put us?

[lunghushan]

Originally Posted by GeneChing

The U.S.A. of 200 years ago is gone too. Remember, America is only a little older than 200 years now. If you were to ask about the America of 250 years ago, well then, where would that put us?

Well it would put us back to being a British colony, when much of the country wasn't inhabited with Europeans. Yes, America of 250 years ago is gone too.

Oh, well. Honestly you've done much much more in your life than I will probably ever do in mine, so I really can't judge any of this, Shaolin or whatever.

(From your posts it seems like you do more in a week than I've done in a year).

[GeneChing]

Suzuki Roshi said (and forgive my paraphrasing) never stop to compare your practice to that of others. When you do that, you lose the way. Our lives aren't over yet, lunghushan, and there maybe past and future lives, so who cares who has done more?

It's important for you to question Shaolin. It's important for everyone to question it, and to arrive at their own conclusions. What I have issues with is when people propound their findings as the sole truth when it is subjective a relative. Many people go to Shaolin looking for a Mickey Mouse monk because that's what they've been told is there. And I'm not denying that Mickey isn't there. But just because there is a Mickey Mouse at Disneyland, doesn't mean there isn't a genuine mouse there too.

[lunghushan]

Originally Posted by GeneChing

Suzuki Roshi said (and forgive my paraphrasing) never stop to compare your practice to that of others. When you do that, you lose the way. Our lives aren't over yet, lunghushan, and there maybe past and future lives, so who cares who has done more?

It's important for you to question Shaolin. It's important for everyone to question it, and to arrive at their own conclusions. What I have issues with is when people propound their findings as the sole truth when it is subjective a relative. Many people go to Shaolin looking for a Mickey Mouse monk because that's what they've been told is there. And I'm not denying that Mickey isn't there. But just because there is a Mickey Mouse at Disneyland, doesn't mean there isn't a genuine mouse there too.

I guess I shouldn't get jealous when other people get to do fun stuff

Yeah, I have no idea what is in Shaolin now. I'm sure Disney has some mice. LOL

[richard sloan]

Originally Posted by GeneChing

...It was one of the most intense tourist abuse situations I've ever been in, short of Jamaica...

this brought me a chuckle.

some of you seem to be almost purposefully obtuse.

[GeneChing]

richard sloan, you of all people know what I'm talking about. And FWIW, Jamaica was amazing too and I had some very profound moments there. I'll never forget my meditation at Nine Mile - it was so powerful.

[richard sloan]

to bring this to jamdung would be threadjack massive, lol...

I think that what we will be continually dealing with, and it will get far worse, is a legacy of tremendous ignorance when it comes to things monastic in general, and Shaolin in particular.

Kind of like what I call the 3rd Grade Teacher Brain Fry. You know, you are in 3rd grade, master of your universe, and then suddenly you are in the supermarket and spot your 3rd grade teacher who to your mind can't exist outside of the classroom.

[GeneChing]

I remember once having a burger back in my meat eating daze and one of my teen students spotted me in the restaurant. He was totally blown away. He came up to me and said "You shouldn't be eating a burger. You should be eating soup or something." Mind you, this was back when I was teaching kids Bak Sil Lum for Wing Lam - I had been to Shaolin, shaved my head once, but let it all grow back and wasn't living a monkish lifestyle by any means. You're totally right, richard sloan, monks can't go to the supermarket, unless they're buying soup. I'd love a bowl of ital stew right about now....

[richard sloan]

lol, no mannish water?

that reminds me of a time I went to the road for a quick cup of soup, from a bobo dred named priest- took a friend of mine with me and he tastes the soup and says to the ras, hmm....this is pretty good but it needs salt...you got any salt?

I was like, you basically just asked a jew for a buttered milk coated steak.

[GeneChing]

FYI, 13,000,000,000 yuan = $1,902,726,701.96 USD at today's market rates.

Shaolin Kung Fu to create 13 bln yuan?
15:46, August 21, 2009


Early in the 1980s, people around the world recognized Shaolin Kung Fu through the film "Shaolin Temple". Perhaps within 10 years, the birth place of Shaolin Kung Fu, Dengfeng City in Henan Province will earn the same global fame as Shaolin Kung Fu did.

Dengfeng is famous for martial arts, with an abundant accumulation of cultural and historic centers for Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism. In 2004, Songshan Mountain, where Shaolin Temple is located, was crowned as a "World Geologic Park" by UNESCO.

At the moment, Dengfeng is drawing up a blueprint for its development over next ten years. It aims to gain international fame as a cultural tourist city by mainly promoting Shaolin Kung Fu to the world.

According to the plan, in 2010, Dengfeng will primarily turn into an international city of Kung Fu, receiving 7 million tourists every year. The total tourism revenue is expected to reach 4.3 billion yuan, amounting to 16.5% of local GDP.

In 2015, the international city of Kung Fu will be complete. It will receive 10 million tourists every year and create 13.1 billion yuan revenue which amounts to 23.5% of local GDP.

In 2020, the Kung Fu industry will become a leading economic driving force. The city will not only explore but also preserve the natural, cultural and historical heritage.

In the next 10 years, Dengfeng will establish a top-ranking martial arts performance company, build up the biggest Kung Fu training base, create newspapers and magazines of Kung Fu and set up Kung Fu filming base and an anime city of Shaolin Kung Fu.

Currently, "Shaolin" as a brand is gaining increasing popularity and value. 62 Kung Fu schools in Dengfeng in recent years have received over 800 million yuan investment.

[GeneChing]

...more about Henan.

Lt. Gov. Bill Halter went to China. He brought back a letter.
HALTER NEWS RELEASE

LITTLE ROCK (August 31, 2009) -- Lieutenant Governor Bill Halter today announced that the state of Arkansas and China’s most populous province, Henan Province, have signed a letter of intent to promote common business interests and generate trade and investment opportunities.

Halter and Feng Yongchen, director-general of the Foreign and Overseas Chinese Affairs Office of the People’s Government of Henan Province, signed English and Chinese versions of the letter while Halter was in the provincial capital of Zhengzhou, China, on Friday as part of an economic development mission arranged by the National Lieutenant Governors Association (NLGA).

“Government officials I met with during our two days in Zhengzhou repeatedly expressed their excitement about formalizing a commercial relationship and developing a cultural exchange with Arkansas,” Halter said. “I am pleased to return with a document that reflects their interest and enthusiasm. This is an exciting opportunity for Arkansas, especially our farmers and businesses.”

The letter of intent establishing a “friendly-exchange relationship” between Henan Province and the state of Arkansas reads, in part:
“The two sides will carry out, based on principles of equality and mutual benefit, exchanges and cooperation of various forms in the fields of economy, trade, science and technology, culture, education, sports, health and qualified personnel … to promote common development.

“Regular contacts shall be maintained between the leaders of both governments and relevant departments of both sides to facilitate consultations on the issues of exchanges and cooperation as well as matters of common concern.”

China is Arkansas’ third-largest export market, behind Canada and Mexico. Currently, China effectively bans imports of U.S. rice and Arkansas-based poultry. Halter encouraged Chinese removal of these trade restrictions last week in discussions with China’s vice minister of foreign affairs, the assistant minister of commerce and Henan Province Party Secretary Xu Guangchun.

“Secretary Xu expressed great enthusiasm about deepening business relationships with Arkansas,” Halter said.

Located in east-central China, Henan is China’s largest province by population, with 100 million residents. If Henan were a country, it would be the world’s 12th largest behind Mexico.

Henan has long been a political, economic and cultural base in China as well as the pivot point of transportation in all directions for a country of more than 1.3 billion people. Historically, more than 20 dynasties initially established or later moved their capitals to Henan Province. Of China's 8 major ancient capitals, 4 are located there. The province also is home Shaolin Temple, a 5th century Buddhist monastery best known to the Western world for its association with Chinese martial arts, including Shaolin Kung Fu.

Signs of Henan’s vigorous economy are evident in its capital of Zhengzhou, where ongoing construction of modern buildings and new roads, is giving this city of 7.5 million people a virtual facelift.

“The amount of new construction in Zhengzhou is tremendous,” Halter said of what he witnessed during his visit. “With $2 billion in additional construction planned over the next two years, they are, in essence, building a new city next to the old one.”

Early during the China trip, Halter met with representatives of Yuan Associates, the Arkansas Economic Development Commission’s consulting firm in Beijing, which asked for his assistance in expanding market opportunities for Arkansas products in the world’s largest consumer market and strengthening Arkansas’ ties with China.

“While there are terrific market opportunities for Arkansas products, there are two markets that are closed to Arkansas exports currently,” Halter said. “The first is poultry products produced in Arkansas, which are currently banned in the Chinese market due to a concern about avian flu; the second product that is not imported into China from Arkansas is Arkansas-produced rice.”

Halter also visited a Wal-Mart Supercenter in China’s capital city as well as commercial and cultural sites in and around Beijing and Zhengzhou