"Seven Star Women's Kung Fu"

[Royal Dragon]

That is all fine, and dandy, but what style of Kung fu/Chuan Fa did your school draw from? what is the lineage of that Kung Fu system?

Also, Kung Fu is a general term yes, but it is general to CHINESE arts, you appear to be 75% Japanese in origin. Karate would be much more accrate of a name considering 75% of what your students get is not Kung fu.

[christianmoses]

That is all fine, and dandy, but what style of Kung fu/Chuan Fa did your school draw from? what is the lineage of that Kung Fu system?

Also, Kung Fu is a general term yes, but it is general to CHINESE arts, you appear to be 75% Japanese in origin. Karate would be much more accrate of a name considering 75% of what your students get is not Kung fu.

You need to work on that reading comprehension don't you? Let's go back to that first post of mine...

"Hello. My name is Chris Moses, I’m a martial artist in the Seattle area. I happened upon this thread the other day and felt that I should make a few informed comments. I’m neither a student of Sevenstar or kajukenbo..." So that would mean that it's not my school or my style. I don't know which lineage of Kung Fu it comes from, I don't particularly care. They don't claim to be doing traditional Kung Fu, they're doing kajukenbo and *they're preserving the system as it was handed down to them* meaning they use the terms and phrases that their teachers used.

75% of the name 'kajukenbo' represents Japanese arts, but that's not an accurate representation of the curriculum. It's Hawaiian MMA and it varies a lot from kwoon to kwoon. There's a lot more Chinese influence than judo for example at Sevenstar.

As for asking me to define what a competant martial artist is, that's stupid. Please offer your own definition first. If you can't, don't ask me to. You know it when you see/feel it, and it would seem that I'm the only person in this discussion whose seen and felt these people.

[The Willow Sword]

Hey if you will notice that video that was originally posted at the beginning of this thread has been removed.

TWS

[Royal Dragon]

As for asking me to define what a competant martial artist is, that's stupid. Please offer your own definition first. If you can't, don't ask me to. You know it when you see/feel it, and it would seem that I'm the only person in this discussion whose seen and felt these people.

Reply]
I didn't ask this

Ok, so ur not part of thier club, but you seem defensive about it...why?

And you seem to know about it too, so where can we go to get basic info on what it is they do that is called Kung Fu?

[Royal Dragon]

Hello. My name is Chris Moses, I’m neither a student of Sevenstar or kajukenbo..." So that would mean that it's not my school or my style. I don't know which lineage of Kung Fu it comes from, I don't particularly care.

Reply]
So, what style are you from then? Do you have any women?

[Yao Sing]

RD, if he ignores you will you be surprised?

He mentioned his style. I don't remember but he did say what it was and I'm too uninterested to look it up for you.

I think he said his wife/girlfriend trains there so he knows them well and is offering an informed perspective. I don't exactly agree but that's where he stands.

[Lohankuen1]

As for asking me to define what a competant martial artist is, that's stupid.
Please offer your own definition first. If you can't, don't ask me to. You know it when you see/feel it, and it would seem that I'm the only person in this discussion whose seen and felt these people.

Why is that question stupid? i just wanted to know what you felt was a competent martial artist was so i can understand where you're coming from that's all. I didn't say i couldn't, it's just that different people have different ideas on what competent means in terms of martial art. Well, we've also seen these people on the video.

Hey, i'm all for empowering women and giving them the confidence they desire, but giving them a false sense of security is not only unfair to them but also people around them.

[Samurai Jack]

Kajukenbo people call thier art "Kung Fu" every where you go. As far as I can tell by speaking with thier practitioners, they don't actually have a kungfu lineage, nor do they claim one. It's just the term that was in most generic use at the time that the art was widely popularized in the U.S. in the mid 70's ala David Carradine's show / Bruce Lee's movies. Sort of like Helio Gracie calling his art "Jujitsu" when it was really based on his early wrestling and Kodokan Judo stuff.

My concern about the school is this quote from the web site:

"By contrast, some male training partners don't give their best when they fight a woman, feeling that it's unmanly or unchivalrous. Others may use their greater size and strength to overpower an inexperienced female opponent, rather than giving her an appropriate level of challenge so that she can develop the skills needed to fight someone larger and stronger."

So let me get this straight. Is the author saying that men aren't good training partners for women because they don't provide enough resistance, or is she saying that they provide too much resistance? It seems to be both. Not to mention the gross generalization.

My dojo has about 30 % women, and as I write this the inside of my lips are cut up and puffy from one of our senior (female) black-belts punching me in the face (over...and over... and over... and...), while I am nursing two strained joints from another female student wrenching my wrist and my opposite shoulder in two seperate classes. I'm one of the biggest guys at the dojo, but if I went light on these women, I'd be hurt a lot worse.

Women can be VERY tough, and don't need men to make concessions, nor are they best served from a self defense perspective by refusing to train with men. Just my opinion.

[Su Lin]

I agree Samurai Jack. I am the only woman in my club and I have to spar with men. I expect them to treat me the same as they do the men. Otherwise why should I bother going at all!You can't have it all ways!
This is why I am sceptical of a women only club, even though they may occasionally spar with men.
If women are doing it as self defence, then they should get used to what fighting with a man feels like! It's all very well practising with women and sparring with them, but if using it for self defence, that isn't going to prepare you for what a man's force would be.
If they aren't doing it for self defence well then, whatever. But personally, as I mentioned much earlier in this debate, I really can't see the merits in just training with women.

[Yao Sing]

Well, I was going to go here but I'll throw out what might be on the minds of some.

There's a distinct air of feminism around that place. A certain gay pride in being a women.

I suspect most of them just prefer the company of other women. It's a girls club first, MA training center second.

I can undersatnd women only fitness centers, health clubs and gyms but for MA it's not a good thing for the reasons expressed by Su Lin and others. But I do give her kudos for holding an open practice once a week.

[christianmoses]

As for asking me to define what a competant martial artist is, that's stupid. Please offer your own definition first. If you can't, don't ask me to. You know it when you see/feel it, and it would seem that I'm the only person in this discussion whose seen and felt these people.

Reply]
I didn't ask this

Ok, so ur not part of thier club, but you seem defensive about it...why?

And you seem to know about it too, so where can we go to get basic info on what it is they do that is called Kung Fu?

Seriously man, if you're not going to read what I write, why should I bother?

Also, the bit about defining a competant martial artist was a response to another post. I feel this is an attempt to set me up for a straw man arguement, thus my request that whoever is asking me for this definition should be willing to offer one of their own first. As for seeing 'these people' on the video, I'd just have to say no 1 minute video is ever going to sum up an art or what it's capable of. And you guys really aren't getting the fact that the video was *an audition for a TV show* not an endorsed documentary about Kajukenbo or Sevenstar.

Samurai Jack, it says you train in Eugene, if you know Tom Wharton or Mark Kruger you can ask them about me, I think I recognize your logon from e-budo too.

Another poster asked if I trained with women. Yes, I have, even studying under female teachers. I've also taught women. I was an instructor at Two Cranes Aikido, probably the largest Aikido school in the Seattle area for about six years before leaving to persue a small jujutsu style. Since we're on the subject, I hold second degree blackbelt ranks in Aikido and a recently tested for fourth degree balckbelt in Shinto Ryu, the sword line I study. Currently I'm studying a small jujustsu style under a student of Bernie Lau, Don Angier and Jon Bluming (if you know anything about any of them, you'll know their emphasis on practical application). I'm primarily a Japanese stylist, but my teachers have had ecclectic enough background that I'm not completely uninformed when it comes to Chinese arts.

There are better witches to burn out there you guys...

[Samurai Jack]

Well, as far as feminisim goes, it dosen't seem very empowering to have a women's only school because "(Men) may use their greater size and strength to overpower an inexperienced female opponent." (emphasis mine)

But they could still be very tough women. Who knows? It just seems like they're methods are a bit counter intuitive for thier goals.

[christianmoses]

Well, I was going to go here but I'll throw out what might be on the minds of some.

There's a distinct air of feminism around that place. A certain gay pride in being a women.

I suspect most of them just prefer the company of other women. It's a girls club first, MA training center second.

I can undersatnd women only fitness centers, health clubs and gyms but for MA it's not a good thing for the reasons expressed by Su Lin and others. But I do give her kudos for holding an open practice once a week.

Sorry, you're just plain wrong. These guys are a serious martial arts dojo. One benefit to being a women's only dojo is that they can spend more time emphasizing scenarios that affect women that just don't get played out in co-ed or predominanatly male dojos. Their focus is on practicality and self defense. My wife was quite hesitant to train there for some time because she too made some of these (incorrect) assumptions about what it means to be a women's dojo. I kept recommending the place because I'm friends with their cheif instructor and hold her in very high esteem, both as low BS martial artist and excellent educator. Now if you have a problem with gay pride, I can't help you there, that's your own hang-up.

[Samurai Jack]

Sure, I know Tom. He's a very strong aikidoka. If you know Gwen Gaylin, then you know how tough female martial artists can be.

For the record I'm not arguing that these martial artists lack skill, only that thier pedagogy seems suspect to me. But of course they can do whatever they want.

Cheers.

[christianmoses]

Well, as far as feminisim goes, it dosen't seem very empowering to have a women's only school because "(Men) may use their greater size and strength to overpower an inexperienced female opponent."

I think you bolded the wrong part of the sentence there.

Tom's a good friend of mine, we have a great time training together and he's stayed with me for seminars a couple times in Seattle. Skill level wise, we're pretty comparable if that gives you some sense of where I'm coming from when I say someone else is a talented MA.