Attn: GeneChing

[GeneChing]

There's always a way around censorship. Perhaps that's not the wisest advice for a forum admin to be dispensing at this point, but when it comes to forums, banning and censorship are really only token gestures. You don't have to be a webmaster to get around them. That being said, if you all want to continue to duke it out here, that's fine with me. Just keep it clean, no biting or eye gouging (it's too late for blows beneath the belt). Being a publisher, I firmly beleive in the freedom of speech, so our censorship is really only based on trying to keep this a family show.

[KC Elbows]

Just keep it clean, no biting or eye gouging (it's too late for blows beneath the belt).

Bullshido members don't own belts, that would keep them from looking cool in their low slung gangsta pants when they hit the mall.

[Phrost]

Oh hey, pictures!

The view of living room from my couch on:



Yours truly, desperately trying to save face:



I'll try to read the rest of the thread if I have time. Just wanted to add these for reference since they were brought up.

[Phrost]

Ok, nevermind. Went backed and skimmed your response. It amazes me that you're so quick to betray confidences when you've always been the one who didn't want private details about yourself put out for public consumption. I guess you just have so much invested in your beliefs that they're more important to you than seeing things rationally.

There's no point in discussing the issue with you when you're in sheer denial about my point of view. I don't run a cranial-rectal seperation service, so I can't help you correct your perspective. You're either intentionally misrepresenting those private discussions (the point being made was that Asia and Omega refined their CMA skills through pressure testing them in competition where many/most CMAists don't), or were just in such an emotional state that your reading comprehension went to hell. Either way, if you chose to be willfully ignorant then I can't stop you. Just know that you really are wrong.

Maybe when you get over your issues you'll be able to go back and see this.

Again. CMArtists that fight: good for CMA. CMArtists that theorize, postulate, fantasize, or perform choreography at the expense of developing fighting skills: bad for CMA. And we don't want the latter on Bullshido as anything other than comic fodder.

It's a pretty simple position. Only someone that's intellectually challenged, or disingenuous would try to misunderstand or misrepresent it.

[GeneChing]

Obviously I've been missing that market.

At this point, if this little flame war gets bigger than our squirrel fu thread, I'll be very amused.

[Samuel Browning]

I was not bashing them, I was initially requesting that Sam, as someone who was familiar with the debacle that led me to leaving, would have the common decency to recognize that he was putting me in a spot by departing from merely hyping the investigation, and begin hyping the board, given the nature of my departure.

That Bullshido has a policy of considering all kung fu styles fraudulent is policy there, but it is not a listed policy, and by advertising here, Sam put me in a position where I can either say nothing and leave members here who may visit there unaware that they will be targetted for investigation based on style, or say something and risk an argument. Perhaps Sam forgot that I frequent here, and he likely never thought of it in those terms, but it still remains that that is the policy there, and the members get no warning.

Regardless, if you don't think this is useful information to your users, I understand, and I certainly will remember that it's your forum before I enter into another of Phrost's hyperbole matches.

Without getting too ornery, I was posting on the thread over here about Bannon approximately a year and a half before you left Bullshido. I generally don't decide whether or not to post on a board by anticipating what a former Bullshido member will think or not think about my presence. If you had wanted to work out some deal before you left, then I'd take your feelings into consdideration, but since this didn't happen I think you are being a bit sensitive about my presence.

I didn't post here about Bullshido in general and my comments concerned one project. While I could see your need to bring up these subjects if I was tossing out lines in the article like "CMAers Join the Bullshido Investigation squad now" I didn't open up such issues. I really disagree that I put you in a particular position.

[Samuel Browning]

Sam, I fully recognize that I came heavy at you, and I apologize. I understand that these issues that we're discussing are neither ones you supported, or ones you took a part in, and I know that you had no mean intent in coming on here plugging Bullshido. I hope you can understand the reasons I couldn't let that slide, and I will pray for you every day you have to work for Phrost and his most recent teen appointees. My best advice for you is to confuse them with cultural references from anytime before 1992.

Also, has Phrost been imitating Boyd's "sinophile" bit for long? Is there any chance we could simply get the real Boyd, or is he busy consulting with Aesopian on how to run their website?

Actually of all the people on Bullshido I don't think Boyd is going for political power. He's always been more interested in his comedy routines, yes, even the ones that drove me up the wall.

[Samuel Browning]

"And to answer sam. I really don't need to rifle through BS's posts to find some proof to post here. What for? I know BS tried to "mug' me. Neal knows it. I know it. This isn't a courtroom. And this will only be settled of the floor. If you REALLY want to know, Get your head out of your orifice and look for yourself. You obviously have the time."

You are right that this is not a courtroom. But first you accuse Anthony of giving you a raw deal and mistating facts, and then when you expect me to argue the point I asked for the links. Since you previously had time to make about 300 to 400 posts on Bullshido attacking Phrost its reasonable to expect you to dig up such info if you want me to stand in for Anthony. If you don't want to, its your problem.

And, while I'm sure you can pick up a phone and complain to the IRS, after seeing a copy of all your posts, I doubt they would take your complaint seriously. Unless I'm missing something, you would have to show that Phrost was not paying taxes on any income he received from the site, not that he put you on global ignore after you went after him repeatedly. Yes, I'm sure the IRS wants to get into the middle of the argument considering whether Phrost did you wrong. Its not like they are currently understaffed or anything.

If you had gone after Debbie Reynolds over at Map, the way you went after Phrost you would have been banned in two days, perhaps three tops, and in terms of banning and "sin binning" MAP is pretty close to the standard in terms of martial arts moderation. You just want to be angry about something.

[KC Elbows]

Without getting too ornery, I was posting on the thread over here about Bannon approximately a year and a half before you left Bullshido.

I was responding to posts well after I left, quite recent posts, but again, the degree of my initial response to you was not characteristic of my opinions of you, but of the Bullshido policy against cma as based on the premise that our tomato can friend is ultimate arbiter of style, his claim, not mine.

True, I've been rough with the admin section details, though the only one I considered truly rude, the comment on Phrost's chances against Rudy, I edited out before Phrost's reply, but not early enough; regardless, I'm not gonna waste time apologizing for situations he enjoys creating.

And again, it's not your presence here I object to at all, it's pitching the site to the people who will get the rawest deal on it, regardless of Phrost attempting to spin "You don't really use kung fu to fight" to mean "You really use kung fu to fight, as informed by mma practices", which is pretty much demonstrably bullcrap. If he meant one, why say the other? Because he didn't mean anything but the first, obviously.

Since the means I have to prove my point happens to be Admin information and BlackBeltClub info, and since the staff lacks the power to rein in Phrost's excesses, that is what I will use, just as Phrost will use everyone else's ignorance of those topics for his advantage.

Again, I have nothing against you being here whatsoever, you deserve to hang at a decent forum for a while, I will simply be putting disclaimers on all your Bullshido plugs for the benefit of the members here who don't already know the truth. I'll keep it clean, but I'll keep it on target as well.

As for Boyd, I was not saying he WANTS to run a site or play political games, just that he can do it at one site at will. And that six month Boyd ban you were talking about: please, stop. That hurt you to say more than me to read. Think of yourself.

[KC Elbows]

As to Phrost's accusation that I am betraying confidences, I have divulged no one's personal information, and Phrost has not, himself, maintained confindentiality in regards to another previous staff member's private words to him, a member who tried to leave on the most amicable of terms and had his private words twisted by Phrost to support the anti-tma spin he was going for to the membership.

Confidentiality, in this case, is only a mutual agreement, nothing more; in this case, said confidentiality would serve as an excuse for Phrost to say "I don't have a policy against chinese martial arts", which is what he says in public while in private he says "Asia, Omega, you don't REALLY fight with kung fu, do ya?"

It's okay, Phrost, you don't have to like kung fu. You can admit it. I mean, really, you've known Asia for what, five years, and you're still not sure what style he does, or simply can't accept it?

[Phrost]

As to Phrost's accusation that I am betraying confidences, I have divulged no one's personal information, and Phrost has not, himself, maintained confindentiality in regards to another previous staff member's private words to him, a member who tried to leave on the most amicable of terms and had his private words twisted by Phrost to support the anti-tma spin he was going for to the membership.

Confidentiality, in this case, is only a mutual agreement, nothing more; in this case, said confidentiality would serve as an excuse for Phrost to say "I don't have a policy against chinese martial arts", which is what he says in public while in private he says "Asia, Omega, you don't REALLY fight with kung fu, do ya?"

It's okay, Phrost, you don't have to like kung fu. You can admit it. I mean, really, you've known Asia for what, five years, and you're still not sure what style he does, or simply can't accept it?

Let's see, Asia has studied:

Judo
JJJ
BJJ
US Army Combatives (BJJ derrived)
Baji
Xingyi
Boxing
Kickboxing
"MMA" (not a style)

And a slew of other things.

The point you fail to get is that he constantly pressure tests all of his experience and uses only what is effective. You refuse to accept that Mixed Martial Arts is nothing more than a rulest under which MARTIAL ARTISTS compete to test their skills against another opponent. You seem to be intellectually incapable of processing this and incorporating it into your entrenched paradigms about MA.

Instead, MMA to you is Mongolia, and you've built a great wall in your head to keep the bad MMA-ers out. This is exactly the same intentional misunderstanding that's used by those guilty of bullshido to support their excuses as to why they don't have to pressure test their skills in limited rules combat.

So instead, you think that because I want all CMArtists to do this kind of pressure testing and quality control, that I must hate all the CMArts stand for. This is provides a great window into your head, because it clearly shows that deep down, you don't feel Kung Fu is about fighting. Why should it have to prove itself?

[KC Elbows]

Let's see, Asia has studied:

Judo
JJJ
BJJ
US Army Combatives (BJJ derrived)
Baji
Xingyi
Boxing
Kickboxing
"MMA" (not a style)

And a slew of other things.

The point you fail to get is that he constantly pressure tests all of his experience and uses only what is effective.

Don't fail to get that at all, nice dodge, though.

You refuse to accept that Mixed Martial Arts is a rulest under which MARTIAL ARTISTS compete to test their skills against another opponent. You seem to be intellectually incapable of processing this and incorporating it into your entrenched paradigms about MA.

That's odd, I've got a ground fighting workshop I'm going to in three weeks, I think it'll be the eighth in the last two years. I enjoy doing knife work, and while I wouldn't call myself expert at all the things I do, I keep at them when I have time, time being the main limiting factor, not an unwillingness to pressure test. But, of course, you really would have no clue what I do with my time, as you already admitted, so thanks for making up one more element of your assessment of me.

[/quote]Instead, MMA to you is Mongolia, and you've built a great wall in your head to keep the bad MMA-ers out. This is exactly the same intentional misunderstanding that's used by those guilty of bullshido to support their excuses as to why they don't have to pressure test their skills in limited rules combat.[/quote]

And in which posts have I done all this? All over, or only when I happen to disagree with you?

So instead, you think that because I want all CMArtists to do this kind of pressure testing and quality control, that I must hate all the CMArts stand for. This is provides a great window into your head, because it clearly shows that deep down, you don't feel Kung Fu is about fighting. Why should it have to prove itself?

Or, the source could be your own statement. You honestly believed, for that shining moment, that Asia and Omega don't use kung fu to fight, and they let ya down. Let's review it again:

Hey Phrost, are you trying to establish a defacto policy that cma is bullshido, and what sense does that make, given that two of the best fighters on staff are kung fu guys?

PHROST: Asia, Omega, you guys don't really use kung fu to fight, do ya?

Yes, clearly all you were asking for was them to confirm that they "pressure test", you weren't hoping they'd say "well, no, Phrost, we only beat people down with what you showed us, we call it oompa loompa fist, and it's the greatest!"

IF your new revised position was actually what you believed, and the policy matched that philosophy(as it did the ENTIRE time I was running your site for you, aside from you and a few busybodies crying about trolls most lent very little credence to anyway), then of course, you'd have a point.

But, since that's not AT ALL what you believe, you're simply rewording the same disingenuine post you already made. As I said, I'm not going to bother arguing as though each public front you put forward is what you actually believe.

You believe that all kung fu is bullshido, you made an awkward attempt to implement this as policy, you embroiled two former staff members in that clumsy attempt, completely burning your bridges with one by using his statements as your political football, and annoying me with the same conduct aimed towards me enough that I decided it wasn't worth the headache of covering for your fumbles anymore.

You flat out do not believe a word of what you're posting to me here. You know it, I know it, it's just your latest pep squad speech so you can make your crowd feel special.

Me: Phrost, are you trying to implement a defacto policy that all cma are bullshido? What sense does that make, given the two best fighters on staff are kung fu guys?

Phrost(pleadingly): Asia, Omega, you don't REALLY use kung fu to fight, do you?

No matter how you cut it, that statement in response equates to your latest post being more bull.

Here, let's do that again:

Phrost, to the membership: How can I be against cma, two of my staff members are kung fu fighters.

Phrost, privately, to those same exact two fighters: Asia, Omega, you don't REALLY use kung fu to fight, do you?

Again:

To the members: Come on, I'm not against kung fu, I've supported san shou a million times.

In private: You don't REALLY...

Again, it falls seriously short of supporting a single one of your revisions on what you actually meant, and continuously supports what I'm saying. You're lying, and we both know it.

[The Willow Sword]

SHUT UP AND TRAIN!! .



















hehe ive always wanted to post that in long winded threads, since ive had it done to ME in the past. by all means continue fellas

As Always,,TWS

[GeneChing]

We're still 103...oops, make that 102, posts behind squirrel fu.

[Samuel Browning]

At the risk of further tilting at windmills I would invite people to review the text of the article I wrote. Bullshido was only mentioned twice.

Once as the place where the original Bannon investigation could be found. This is highly relevant. Shouldn't I tell people where they can find proof of my assertions? Oh well, maybe not, because doing so is an "Ad for Bullshido", I always thought it was part of backing up one's argument.

Secondly, my staff affiliation was mentioned because it was relevant, this investigation simply didn't materialize out of nowhere. Leaving it out of the piece would have been deceptive.

Nowhere in the article was there a recruiting pitch for Bullshido, or an exortation to come join us. If someone wants to visit and review our open sections, thats great. There is no charge and you don't have to register or provide a name. Make up your own mind as to whether we are anti-CMA, and whether what we do is worthwhile. Heck, visit MAP, Sherdog, or TMA as well if you want to make a comparison, find out what you enjoy.

Otherwise we are stuck in an argument between Phrost and KC and Rudy and myself which must seem rather baffling to the outsider. Did Boyd, get a nine month ban or a six month ban? Was this part of the CMA falling out between those mentioned above? No, actually he was banned for other reasons and it was from February through December of 2005.

I'm heading out for a business trip to California so I won't have internet access for a couple of weeks, but I think that people here are intelligent enough to come to their own conclusions, though whenever someone mentions Bullshido over here in the future it appears they've just earned themselves a longwinded argument for why Bullshido has an anti-CMA policy, when the truth is more complex and heavily rooted in training methods, and previous personal conflict.