Mantis108/Video Clip - My Own Words

[SifuLeeLera]

Hello,

To all seven star praying mantis (TangLang) family. This message is concerning the short video clip called (Mantis108) A.K.A Mantis "vs" Wing Chun. I was not aware of this information until I was searching the online internet on mantis. How this all happened, I was talking to a close friend of mine and his name is Sifu Nikita Young Johnson. His styles are Wing Chun/JKD/Praying Mantis. I told him that I meet a Wing Chun Sifu by the name of Milan Kecic, disciple of Grand Master William Cheung. Sifu Milan in my opinion, I would rate him as a top Kungfu fighter. If you don't know what you are doing when you are fighting him. You will get hurt. His master did a good job teaching him. Sifu Milan wanted to start his own Wing Chun classes at my temple (School). I told this to Sifu Nikita, he was very excited to meet Sifu Milan. Sifu Nikita, asked me if he could bring in his video camera. I told him Sifu Milan and I was training together in private. I'm helping him on his endurance and conditioning of his body. I told Sifu Milan with this type of training it would be hard for anyone to beat him. That's how I train my students. Sifu Milan asked me one day while we were training. Why do you play a defense all the time when we are sparring? I told him that a good defense fighter could attack at anytime. I also told him that in the past I would spar with top Martial Art Fighters. The fighters would leave the school feeling ok. The next day I would receive a call from the fighters stating that they woke up the next morning with injuries. Some needed to seek medical attention for these injuries which made me feel real bad. So my point is to Sifu Milan, if I do not feel that you are not on my level, I would not attack you. If I do it will be with extra control. That is why I am always concern of my opponent. I also stated to Sifu Milan that if you want me to attack, you must spar first with one of my disciples. Sifu Frank Gonzalez, a first degree black sash. Sifu Milan said ok, so we setup the match. The sparring match lasted 30 seconds. Sifu Milan bowed out stating that he has no medical insurance. Later on that day while leaving out of the temple (School), Sifu Milan called me "MASTER". I told him he does not have to call me master, I'm just a coach. Thinking back years ago I remember my first Kungfu master, Master Kwan telling me that my skills are too advance, that I should not spar people because they would get hurt. I also remember the first time I got hurt in training is when my last master. Master Raymond Ly, told me not to use my fighting skills in sparring one of his favorite disciples.

Getting back to the video clip, that day of sparring with Sifu Milan I noticed the look on Sifu Milan's face. When he seen Sifu Nikita bringing in the video camera, he became different in his actions. I told Sifu Nikita that I think Sifu Milan feels uncomfortable about the video camera. I explained to Sifu Milan that the camera was for Sifu Nikita private training and that he like to video different sparring matches. So don't worry about anything, I gave Sifu Milan my word. Due to the camera being setup I felt that Sifu Milan was intimidated and was actually attacking me with eager moves while I was playing a defensive role. That's why in the video clip I was asking Sifu Milan are you ok. At the end of the video you notice that I told Sifu Milan that I was only working on conditioning. Due to the fact I did not want him to feel intimidated by me. I was shocked!!! When I observed the video clip on the world wide internet. I do not own or have a copy of the video clip. I got in touch with Sifu Nikita about the situation of the private video clip, he stated that he let his student borrow the tape for practice and was not aware of him using it on the internet world wide. So my point is the video clip you see was only a friendly sparring match between two friends which was not for public viewing. The video just got into the wrong hands with out my permission. Traditional Praying Mantis was not used in this clip!!! Someone just made there own little movie.

I want to give special thanks to those out there who saw the video clip and knew what was actually going on. Also, I would like to stress in traditional TangLang or any other Martial Arts you can not use certain moves in sparring as your opponent will get hurt. For the person who put the video clip out there, I know this was done with good intentions. I've been teaching the Praying Mantis/TangLang system for over 20 years and my record speaks for it's self. I have no intentions to reply to future gossip. If you're ever in the city of Chicago you can visit me at my temple. For more information visit www.mantisfist.com.

Thank You,

Sifu Lee Lera,

P.S. If one thing I learned from this is to never trust a so call friend to Video you, while play fighting with someone.

[mantis108]

Concerning the clip "Mantis Vs Wing Chun", it was quite a while ago that someone else labelled the clip as such and posted on the KFM Wing Chun forum I believe. I saw it and I reposted it here. I shared my opinion on it and I believe there are others who shared theirs as well.

I would like to thank you for taking the time to give a detailed account on the background of the clip in question. It certainly helps clear things up. As far as memory serves, I believe both of the people in the clip showed skills in sparring. For 2 skilled people giving it a go in a live and resistive manner, I think you both are great. I think I was drawn to the label that it is billed as Mantis Vs Wing Chun and I was, as many others in the mantis community would have, hoping to see mantis specific techniques in action I had high expectation. I think we have to respect the fact that your first concern was the safety of your opponent and you decided not to use mantis specific techniques in that match. In that case, I feel the person who first labelled the clip Mantis Vs Wing Chun has mislead us all. It is a perfectly fine training and sparring as it is.

I must appologize to you and Sifu Milan for my part that I am not aware of the background of the session and formed an opinion that might have brought you some grievies among your own communities. I do not wish to create rifes in the martial arts community mantis or otherwise. We hold discussion in good faith. It is unfortunate that someone would take advantage of private material for training purpose and that you, Sifu Milan, me and others fell victim to a misleading label. I am all for making friends and learning from other martial artists. It would sound to me that your are a kind and caring person from your post. I am sure that your students are in good hands.

Again my sincere apologies and best wishes for you and your schools.

Best regards

Robert Hui (Mantis108)

[Shadowboxer]

Greetings Gentlemen,

I edited that clip as a favor for someone I was editing some other clips for. He asked me to make that for him to put on the web. I was unaware of the background regarding the session/participants. I just wanted to help get some examples of mantis/wc sparring on the web. I never intended to mislead anybody or reproduce private material. Had I known what I know now, I would have refrained from creating the clip. My sincerest apologies to all involved.

Chad Winters

[WinterPalm]

Where can one such as I view said video clip?

[monkeyfoot]

I personally enjoyed the video clip.

I never knew the details and originally I thought of it as a friendly spar between two friends.

Even though not mantis vs wingchun I found it useful anyhow. Thought the guy in the blue pants was almost intimidating with his defensive manner.

If anything its good to see people having fun with martial arts, rather than the straight serious faces all the time.

craig

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Where be the clip?

[shirkers1]

Here you go guys.... This is an old one for sure, and most of the links have died out. But I did find a site that still had it up and I uploaded it to youtube so you guys could discuss this further if need be.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT6FUfID2eY

[Buddy]

They both look the same.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I did see this clip some time ago.

Are these two individuals, teachers of their styles?

Although I could tell who was WC and who was PM, it seems to me, that neither of them can actually use their styles in real fighting.

Sparring of course, is not real fighting, but I can easily see that these two are not high-level practitioners.

They should get together with other who fight differently. These two guys looked like they were from the same school. Just throwing techniques..which is okay, but not using strategy or their respected styles at all.

[phoenixdog]

A friendly exchange but the further they go the more it looks like like karate to me.They start orthodox but then switch to all lead leg,wide stance.Once they clinch they don't know what to do.Old habits die hard.

[fiercest tiger]

There was some JKD lol, vs TKD it looked like, maybe cause they are friends they didnt want to show there real hand?!

Thanks for the clip

[neilhytholt]

There was some JKD lol, vs TKD it looked like, maybe cause they are friends they didnt want to show there real hand?!

Thanks for the clip

Well obviously they didn't want to hurt each other. It seemed like the Mantis guy got a lot of opportunities for leg attacks that could have been crippling, but he didn't want to execute them hard. As a result he kindof got overrun by the Wing Chun's guy's attacks when he came in close.

That being said, I think both fighters could work on a couple of things:

a) Mantis, work on short techniques.
b) Wing Chun, work on leg techniques.

But Bravo, nothing to be ashamed of or anything, you fought and sparred and you've both got guts for that right?

[fiercest tiger]

ACTUALLY the mantis guy did a couple of nice kicks, the problem with friendly sparring is you cannot really do what you art is about. Thats why they should enter comps to test themselves cause that sparring doesnt prove anything much more then a white belt karate or TKD class sparring, they obviously didnt want to engage and hurt each other.

Also letting a clip like that leak out doesnt give those guys or there system justice cause i know those arts are good fighting systems, just depends on the person how he takes the information when learning.

Garry

[Tieh]

Also, I would like to stress in traditional TangLang or any other Martial Arts you can not use certain moves in sparring as your opponent will get hurt.

Haven´t I heard that somewhere before? Does that also mean that with traditional KF it is not possible to have a good and firm body structure and footwork in sparring?

Put differently I know that most people don´t look too good in those type of sparring matches and that it is impossible to apply certain tacktics and techniques of a traditional style in sparring. Structure and footwork, avoid going to the ground etc. though can well be applied in a sparring game. Maybe he (the mantis guy) just let it go and let the other one do, otherwise I am not impressed by the obove mentioned points.

[EarthDragon]

one can argue both points of this situation.

Is mantis too deadly to spar with in a freindly situation? No

Is it possible to show the flavor of your style while engaging in friendly combat? yes

Do people spend enough time/years in thier style to make it work in these situations? No

Aikido has what they call 20 year techniques, they cannot be performed accuratly in less time. does that mean they dont work?

In actual combat rarely does the fight look like it does when you spar. When I am attacked in real life the moment the first punch it thrown, I close in and retaliate. I would never exchange punches therefore i dont find sparring other than hand eye corrdination practice accurate and actually casues bad habits to form.

I sparred a TKD black belt and when he throw a kick I slide under grabbed his throat and root then slammed him to the mat. He was like wow! why are you sparring like that? thats not sparring........... I said I spar to be better at fighting and thats how I fight........... should I change?

This is the problem with modern day kung fu the fight has been takken out of it in many situations, Yes I love the art as well as the whole soft side but as far as the martial side many times we are taught differently then we fight, this is why so many people dont take kung fu seriously when comparred to MMA or BJJ if you fight BJJ you are on the mat from day 1 if you join a kung fu school you fight a year later and almost hardly spar.