New Gor-Sau Clips from NG Chun-hong Wing Chun Association

[Alan Lau]

Kung Hei Faat Choi and Happy New Year!!

Just a quick message to let you know that my Sifu's (NG Chun-hong) has posted new gor sau clips of his students in Hong Kong onto his website at http://www.wingchun.hk.com .

Here is an introductory clip: http://www.wingchun.hk.com/Temp/Intro.wmv

Any comments would be most welcomed. Wishing you all the best for the Year of the Dog,


Regards,
Alan Lau

[ghostofwingchun]

Kung Hei Faat Choi and Happy New Year!!

Just a quick message to let you know that my Sifu's (NG Chun-hong) has posted new gor sau clips of his students in Hong Kong onto his website at http://www.wingchun.hk.com .

Here is an introductory clip: http://www.wingchun.hk.com/Temp/Intro.wmv

Any comments would be most welcomed. Wishing you all the best for the Year of the Dog,


Regards,
Alan Lau

Mr Lau gung hei faat choi and thank you for sharing your video clips! I found them very interesting . . . I will say since you ask for comments . . . is that such training I have found not to be very useful if goal is to develop wc fighting skill . . . this is because much of what is working only works because it is meeting wc responses . . . and these will not be responses of most any one . . . but it looks like people on clip are having much fun.

Thanks,

Ghost

[splinter]

Can someone tell me what the translation of Gor Sau is?

I haven't reached a level where I'm incorporating that much kicking, but asides form that, his doesn't look a whole lot different from what I would consider to be chi sau.

[Alan Lau]

Thanks Ghost for your comments. Yes, the encounters shown in the sparring clips were between two Wing Chun exponents. As we only train 'pure' Wing Chun, we only know the Wing Chun 'way'. Although we training (almost) exclusively against Wing Chun attacks, we would sometimes have others who have experience in other styles of martial arts attack in another way other than Wing Chun. Perhaps we would include these sparring clips in future series of clips. Like what Chisauking said in the 'Toe to testicle range' post, we concentrate exclusively in perfecting the fighting art of Wing Chun.

Splinter, Gor-sau is a generic term in Chinese for sparring or exchanges of hands/techniques. We train gor-sau from breaks in chi-sau or outside the chi-sau range. If what you saw in our gor-sau resembles chi-sau, then that’s because we’ve kept the Wing Chun ‘flavour’ even outside the chi-sau sphere.


Alan Lau

[splinter]

Mr Lau,

Thank you for the explanation...
However, when I said it looked like chi sau, I was referring more to the level of intensity.

From what I've been taught, chi sau tends to start with a number of fixed drills, but eventualy, we move on to try to apply the techniques more freely, but starting from the standard rolling position, and it ends up looking more or less like what your video clips are showing, but I've never been told to call it anything other chi sau.

I suspect it's just a matter of terminology so thank you for the clarification.

[Mr Punch]

We train gor-sau from breaks in chi-sau or outside the chi-sau range.

Hi Alan, don't know if you remember me, I came over to Sifu Ng's gym in Mar '02, watched a class and had a chat to him, you and some gentleman who speaks Japanese... beleive it or not, I still haven't found the opportuniy to train with Sifu Ng and I would still like to... busy life!

Anyway, just a quick question.

Your definitiong of gor sau is very much what I learnt it to be too. So, in my wing chun, gor sau is solely for training the initial stage before and at first contact to get into chi sau range (by which time of course, it may already be over!): or the odd occasion that there is a break in chi sau and it isn't prudent to go straight back into chi sau range (like when a boxer pushes you away from clinch, or a judoka wants you in close to drop you on your head). So gor sau is for controlling range, especially for practising establishing chi sau range.

So, here's the question! On some of your clips (some nice ones there btw, good work and thanks for posting them - very brave on this forum ) you seem to be backing off, having a bit of a rest etc instead of going back to a more aggressive chi sau range. Is this because of a difference in level, so the more experienced is trying to show the less experienced that he still has control at greater range? And if so, doesn't prolonged training in gor sau encourage bad habits, ie basically slacking off and not concentrating on 'following what goes'?

[Alan Lau]

Hello Mat,

Of course I remember you. It isn't everyday that we get two groups of guests from Japan with one being English and speaks fluent Japanese. I hope things have been good with you.

In Chinese, Gor-sau is equivalent to sparring. So with us, gor sau is simply a free flow of techniques outside the realm of chi-sau and other drills.

I back off sometimes was because I was weary of my Sihing lightening counters. If my Sihing decides to go for the kill, he is virtually unstoppable. The reason I got to him sometimes was because he chose to let me through (sometime I got in by virtue of better techniques/reactions ). Hence, if he lowers the intensity, I would too. (A sign of respect, as you will.) On another day, the intensity may be higher or lower. For higher intensities, there is more likelihood of accidents. I agree with you that slacking off would encourage bad habits but an advantage is the opportunity to practice certain technique that'd otherwise not possible because the encounter would end too soon. Besides, it is not often that we have it that easy – Sifu would have us going in for the kill where possible (there are several old clips that show this and I think you saw this when you visited us). Other than ‘follow what goes’, I think you can spot the ‘retains what comes’ and much, much more kuen kuits.

some nice ones there btw, good work and thanks for posting them - very brave on this forum

I have been fortunate thus far . Thanks.

Alan

[Mr Punch]

Cheers Alan. That's pretty much the way I was taught too.

[YungChun]

Thanks for sharing Mr. Lau and gung hei faat choi!


Very cool clips and clearly this kind of drilling is an important part of the system and develops some key WCK attributes..

If I may ask; I'm wondering what you meant by some of your comments:

As we only train 'pure' Wing Chun, we only know the Wing Chun 'way'.

Just wondering; Do you mean you train only the classical drills and the classical progression?

we concentrate exclusively in perfecting the fighting art of Wing Chun.

Again curious; What does this 'perfection' mean in this context?

Is this something, you feel, that can be measured solely by looking inwardly through the art and classical training of WCK or is this something that must be measured by looking outwardly and ensuring adaptation with the real and changing world of martial skill and practice outside of our classical WCK training?

Thanks,

[Alan Lau]

Greetings YungChun,

You have asked two very interesting questions. My answers are as follow:

Reply 1. Since Sifu only learnt Wing Chun, he can only teach Wing Chun. The Wing Chun he teaches is a combination of the knowledge from his three Sifus and from his own inspiration. Hence, my meaning of 'pure' is in the sense that Sifu only teach Wing Chun that has been passed down from his Sifus, furthered by his own ingenuity, with no adaptation from other martial arts. We, in turn, are nurtured to express our fighting skills using Wing Chun techniques driven by Wing Chun's theories and concepts.

Reply 2. The art of Wing Chun Kuen passed down by Sifu contains techniques, theories and concepts. The art is lost if any of these elements are missing. Techniques, in so far as Yip Man lineage, are found in the three hand forms, wooden dummy form and the pole and baat jarm do forms. Theories and concepts are contained in the kuen kuit, or fighting maxims, created by our Wing Chun forefathers. Kuen kuit are not restricted to only "Receive what comes...." but hundreds more. They are the 'codes' that tell use when and how to apply the techniques in order to make them work (to their maximum effectiveness). In other words, they teach us both strategy and application. Are the kuen kuit exhaustive? No, because Sifu doesn't know them all and because there is no limit to one's expression of an art form. To be an effective fighting art, Wing Chun must improve and keep up with time. Improvement can only be done by first mastering the art. For Sifu, he does not see a need to improve Wing Chun. The theories and concepts have enabled his techniques to be alive with infinite combinations and adaptability to any situation, save, of course, a shooting bullet or the like. It has served him very, very well indeed during his many life and death encounters in his 30 years of working in the HK Police Force as a Detective. To answer your question, perfection is measured both in the classical training and handling of the modern changing face of martial arts. For me, I'm still struggling with mastering the classical part. I am still struggling to be as good as my Sifu.

Hope I've answered your questions.

[chisauking]

Welcome to the wing chun forum of despair!

Good post, Alan.....but unless Ng sifu has won the K1 or NHB, forget it, this bunch won't believe a word you say. LOL

Regarding comments on your clips, let me relay a conversation with sifu Ng..

We was sitting down in the pub pretty bored, so I brought up the subject of Lam Man Hog's clips on the net, and then your clips. His eyes lit up, and he was obviously happy to talk about the subject. He was speaking highly of you, and he made a point of stating that all your clips were un-rehearsed and spontaneous, and that it showed a wide variety of wing chun techniques, but more than that, it showed the correct usage for each attack and defence.

You know what I said to him? I said, no matter how good your chisau, most people wouldn't know what to look for anyway (myself included)
I said if you want to impress an audiance, you have to mis-match the opponent's so that one is far better than the other. This way, the better guy would have his engine running on full, with all the clylinders fireing. He would be demonstrating all his techniques with ease on his partner, blasting him left right and centre (see boztepee's clips)

I stated that if you have two opponents of high abilities and skill, the obvious would happend: not very much!. Both opponents would be able to shut each other's engine down before it could even start, and not much action, if any, would take place.

So you see, by the response, or lack of, once again I have proved my self right! LOL

Anyway, I enjoyed the clips very much, so keep up the good work. Waiting for serious 7

the trouble maker: michael yan choi

[hen]

Hi Alan,

Nice clips!!!

Have you chi-sau/gor sau with other fellow WC people (from other schools) in HK??? Before settling down with Master Ng, did you seek out many other HK schools??

I just curious as to how one would select their school/master, especially in HK. There must be many good masters in HK.

Hen

[ghostofwingchun]

I do not understand why reference to pure wc are made . . . is this suggestion that others wc is less pure . . . because if every one has pure wc then it is no big deal . . . and I am thinking this is idea of purity is not some thing useful to martial artists . . . it suggests that there is external objective right way . . . the pure way . . . and nature of activity itself makes this impossible . . . and it does not say anything about ability . . . I know some people that know only pure golf but this does not make them good golfers . . . lol. And I am thinking that references to perfection . . . particularly in fighting art or sport . . . is meaningless . . . there is no such thing . . . there are levels of ability . . . some very rare individuals reach ability level that is astounding . . . but I am thinking no one in wc has demonstrated this ability yet. I am thinking that references to purity and perfection and such may indicate to others a lack of humility . . . even if this is not intention . . . so we should be careful thinking this way . . . any way this is my opinion.

Thanks,

Ghost

[Alan Lau]

Hello there Michael. Sifu is very appreciative of your hospitality during his visit to the UK. And yes, the name trouble maker is very fitting for your antics here. Keep up the good work.

Cheers Hen. Yes, I've played chi-sau and gor-sau with many people in HK and elsewhere, and witnessed many well known Sifus in action. With all due respect, I would have (and still would) joined other Sifus if I had considered them better. Luckily, Sifu Ng was the first Sifu I encountered. Call it fate, call it luck – I don't know. I think finding a Sifu in HK is pretty much similar to other places in the world. There is a mixture of good and bad Sifus. If you know what you're looking for, then it's just a matter of finding that right Sifu. If not, then you're left to fate. I found these people have a notion that all Wing Chun are the same and judge on stuff like uniform, certificates, decoration, tuition fees, etc.

Ghost, as I've said, my meaning of 'pure' was in the sense that Sifu only teach Wing Chun that has been passed down from his Sifus, furthered by his own ingenuity, with no adaptation from other martial arts. Pureness was in no way a reference to ability or implied other 'Wing Chun' is less pure. Though I think I understood what you meant, I have to say that I disagree. Thank you for expressing your thoughts, nonetheless.

[hen]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for you comments.

I noticed from the clips that the movements are soft and light (especially from Kwan). I personally beleive being light and soft is important.

Would you say your WC (chi sau) is soft compared to other HK schools or are there other masters you encountered that are far more softer.

Hen