San Da take 2

[Mortal1]

"maybe the guy had fight experience or maybe not, maybe he just trained hard, he was well prepared by his teacher/coach.

remember ray, has fighting experience too, he says he does throwdowns.

so saying that the guy had prior fighting experience and ray didnt is not true. if you look at it, ray had the advantage because he fought san shou before and he does throwdowns.

as for weight difference, the guy made weight so theres nothing wrong with that."



He definitly trained hard. I'm not defending or making excuses. Just saying what it looked like to me. I'm sure the guys weight was fine but I thought he looked a little big. I wouldn't want that guy to be my first ring fight though.

Your right there was a lot of talk that wasn't backed up. I'm just trying to be objective. Its not like Ray lost to some puny girly man with boobs. The guy was carved out of granite.

[Djimbe]

Umm , let me make a Comment about "Throwdowns"

They arent Fights .

Not even REMOTELY .

At BEST they MIGHT be compared to an Open Sparing session at a school , or a BJJ "Open Mat" time , if youre familiar with that Structure . Guys arent Peaking , theyre not Making weight , its not a competition Environment , and they "Go" at varying levels of intensity and Ruolesets determined by the participants on the spot , and there arent really any Set ANYTHINGS , even Equipment can Fluctuate .

I understand the Misconception , because i had the same one before I ever attended one , but franklly most of the ppl at Throwdows REALLY REALLY Suck , ESPECIALLY At Striking . Theyre Typically Grapplers that just want to "Roll" and wnt put gloves on at ALL , or at best they WANT to bvecause htey dont typically GET to , and thus have very little in the way of Skill or Experience at it . So the difference between a guy that has 15 Sambo matches stating that hews "0-0" at comps because hes never done a single San Da rules match is WAY different than a CMA stylist doing the same , especially since its OUR ruleset ! Thats like saying that a Second year BJJ student has a Record of 150-150 because hes Rolled 300 times in classes ! Its just Extra Training/Sparring for ppl whos schools dont do enough of it for whatever reason , really . And from what I know about it Ray does these things like once a MONTH , and dosent spar much at his school , so its not exactly like hes doing more Sparring total than anyone at any other San Da Gym , Im sure Sifu Ross' guys spar far more Regularly than Ray gets to , and he dosent cout all of THOSE instances as "Fights" .

[Djimbe]

Sifu Ross :

The guy said :

Somehow God, or whoever set these matches, was against me and that's who I drew. He was the only fighter in that place I found intimidating and somehow that was my first match. The first match of my weight division. I'm going to be surprised tomorrow to find out that Stephan Cloud did not win it all at 187.... a very good fighter.

You REALLY took this as a LITERAL indictment on your Integrity ? How ? Are you Psychic , and you somehow KNEW he Intimidated Ray ? Or do you think youre God , perhaps ? Im not exactly Rays biggest fan , but youre just stirring up crap here , Intentionally , and thats not the way that members of this community should act tward one another . You dont like the guy , fine . But he showed up and payed you your Fees and competed in yoru event , keeping YOU in business another day . You tok the THINNEST of Skeins and wove it into a whole TAPESTRY of Ill Will tward you , when none was Intended in the first place . Its like a Napoleonic Complex or something . I mean , Why do you NEED so badly for him to have been Abusing you , personally ? I say that because he WASNT , but you went WELL out of your way to make it that way .

[rogue]

Pass the popcorn.

[Face2Fist]

well said djimbe.

[wiz cool c]

My teacher was at the event as well. We had a guy from our school fight. And he said the guy that Ray fought was a monster. He said he looked like his walk around weight is about 215.

[Ray Pina]

First, I have no excuses. I lost to the best fighter I have ever fought in my life. He would have beaten me that day in the ring, the street corner or the cage.

I did not quit. I was knocked to the canvas 3 times, TKO. The first one, the one when my knose broke, was a fight stopper. Most likely he would have submitted me with a rear, naked joke, being that I was kissing the canvas.

The other two knock downs were more slips/off balance while taking a shot but I was still able to fight. But I'm glad it ended the way it did. I saw what I needed to see. Know what I need to do.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't care that he weighed in at 185 and I wieghed in at 179. I don't care that he's naturally 210 easily and I'm 187. I want to be able to fight this type of good, well built, highly-skilled and attributed fighter.

Ross, I thank you for this opportunity. I'm going to train, build up some more attributes, and ask this man for a rematch at his gym. He's a great fighter. I also want to apologize to him for that ground action.

As for you, I lost what respect I have for you.

You set weigh in at 3:00 p.m. and when I get there your fighters are apparantly weighed in already .... me, the guy who beat me, and the other fighter not from your school never saw those guys weight in. That's why I know my guy was 185. I saw it with my own eyes. You dismiss us all to go put weight on and we all walk out.

Also, I know you saw that guy. Everyone did. I know you set the matches. I can't help but think of you and the way you are and how I, and not one of your fighters, gets the first crack at that fresh guy who was obviously 210 but cut to 185 somehow.

This doesn't bother me though. I saw the guys fighter below me. To think if I cut 3 more pounds I could have been the Goliath, but that aint my way. I'm glad I fought that guy.

I got knocked off balance by a good kick and bounced off the rope into a heavy right hand that broke my nose. I still had fight in me and never backed up. Down 2 more times and TKO.

Next time I'll have a corner. Next time I'll be more fired up.

I lost a fight to a very good fighter.

As for you, you almost split your pants doing a single leg takedown demo in pre-fight instructions. I was not in that guys class this Sat. You are not in mine. No way.

[Ray Pina]

First, I have no excuses. I lost to the best fighter I have ever fought in my life. He would have beaten me that day in the ring, the street corner or the cage.

I did not quit. I was knocked to the canvas 3 times, TKO. The first one, the one when my knose broke, was a fight stopper. Most likely he would have submitted me with a rear, naked joke, being that I was kissing the canvas.

The other two knock downs were more slips/off balance while taking a shot but I was still able to fight. But I'm glad it ended the way it did. I saw what I needed to see. Know what I need to do.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't care that he weighed in at 185 and I wieghed in at 179. I don't care that he's naturally 210 easily and I'm 187. I want to be able to fight this type of good, well built, highly-skilled and attributed fighter.

Ross, I thank you for this opportunity. I'm going to train, build up some more attributes, and ask this man for a rematch at his gym. He's a great fighter. I also want to apologize to him for that ground action.

As for you, I lost what respect I have for you.

You set weigh in at 3:00 p.m. and when I get there your fighters are apparantly weighed in already .... me, the guy who beat me, and the other fighter not from your school never saw those guys weight in. That's why I know my guy was 185. I saw it with my own eyes. You dismiss us all to go put weight on and we all walk out.

Also, I know you saw that guy. Everyone did. I know you set the matches. I can't help but think of you and the way you are and how I, and not one of your fighters, gets the first crack at that fresh guy who was obviously 210 but cut to 185 somehow.

This doesn't bother me though. I saw the guys fighter below me. To think if I cut 3 more pounds I could have been the Goliath, but that aint my way. I'm glad I fought that guy.

I got knocked off balance by a good kick and bounced off the rope into a heavy right hand that broke my nose. I still had fight in me and never backed up. Down 2 more times and TKO.

Next time I'll have a corner. Next time I'll be more fired up.

I lost a fight to a very good fighter.

As for you, you almost split your pants doing a single leg takedown demo in pre-fight instructions. I was not in that guys class this Sat. You are not in mine. No way.

[Ray Pina]

To answer some questions I saw raised.

My conditioning was actually fine. I wasn't winded. Though it was only 1 round. But we didn't dance at all. It was all fight.

I had no one in my corner other than my friend with a camera.

I was most impressed by two things in regards to the other guy: he moved really well, I could never really get my hands on him. Or rather, I couldn't jam him up. He kind of leaned back and circled like Ali.

Also, the speed and power of his shots. I bounce off the rope and his right hook, bam... very short power, but crisp. Very good.

In the end, the guy was good and bigger. But I feel I didn't raise me spirits enough. I was ready to fight. But not to kill. Don't know why. I was pretty nervouse the night before. MOre than usual. Because I was fighting more to make a point for everyone else, lot of pressure. But that's a good lesson too.

But like I said, boils down to" got beat by a better fight. Need to train more. Chillin for like 30 days because of work travel, will keep with the underground fights and will like to fight that guy again in May.

[Face2Fist]

Umm , let me make a Comment about "Throwdowns"

They arent Fights .

Not even REMOTELY .

At BEST they MIGHT be compared to an Open Sparing session at a school , or a BJJ "Open Mat" time , if youre familiar with that Structure . Guys arent Peaking , theyre not Making weight , its not a competition Environment , and they "Go" at varying levels of intensity and Ruolesets determined by the participants on the spot , and there arent really any Set ANYTHINGS , even Equipment can Fluctuate .

I understand the Misconception , because i had the same one before I ever attended one , but franklly most of the ppl at Throwdows REALLY REALLY Suck , ESPECIALLY At Striking . Theyre Typically Grapplers that just want to "Roll" and wnt put gloves on at ALL , or at best they WANT to bvecause htey dont typically GET to , and thus have very little in the way of Skill or Experience at it . So the difference between a guy that has 15 Sambo matches stating that hews "0-0" at comps because hes never done a single San Da rules match is WAY different than a CMA stylist doing the same , especially since its OUR ruleset ! Thats like saying that a Second year BJJ student has a Record of 150-150 because hes Rolled 300 times in classes ! Its just Extra Training/Sparring for ppl whos schools dont do enough of it for whatever reason , really . And from what I know about it Ray does these things like once a MONTH , and dosent spar much at his school , so its not exactly like hes doing more Sparring total than anyone at any other San Da Gym , Im sure Sifu Ross' guys spar far more Regularly than Ray gets to , and he dosent cout all of THOSE instances as "Fights" .

the reason i said throwdowns is because, ray counts that as fight experience, he said his fight record is # of wins and no loses. i personally wouldnt count anything that is not in the ring towards my fight record. but he does count them

but hey to each is own.

hopefully he learned from his mistakes and learned the difference between fighting real fighters like he fought this weekend and novice fighters like the ones in throwdowns

[Wong Fei Hong]

Props to ray for saying exactly what happened and for what he believed.

If i could ask a simple question , not to hijack the thread but do any of these events or similar ones , ever get tested for roids cutting substances or stimulants ?

[lkfmdc]

Ray, you've completely lost it...

First and foremost, you didnt' fight one of my fighters, so why even try and claim they didn't weigh in???

Nor were any of my fighters in your bracket. Actually, I would have loved for one of my guys to fight you... but I didn't have any 187 lbs ready...

There's no point in talking about my fighters at all... except to note that we went 6-1 that day...

You were there when Stephan weighed in. Are you claiming he didn't weigh in EXACTLY THE SAME WEIGHT AS YOU? He weighted in at 179 also. I can post if need be the weigh in sheets.

You weighed in about 2 minutes apart from eachother, the same scale, the same weight.

If you could have cut more weight, why didn't you? Excuses...

There was only three guys in your class, yourself included, in the back, everyone's papers were put face down and we randomly chose two guys for first fights. It could have just as easily been you vs David Rapp... or David Rapp vs Stephan...

Face it, you have excuses for everything

If you had lost to David Rapp you'd be on here with the same excuses...

If you had beaten David Rapp, you would have had to face Stephan, then your excuse would have been that you were tired...

If Stephan is such a "monster" then why did David Rapp last more than TWICE AS LONG AS YOU DID?

You lasted a total of 1:39

David Rapp, in beginner forms, with no fights, lasted until 2:28 of the second round, ie a total of 5:28 seconds...

Most people in attendance felt that the shots on the ground were intentional. You were clearly losing and you looked desperate. Is your teacher proud of that sort of behavior?

Do we need to dig up the posts about how you were going to be a whirlwind of violence and take the guy out in the first round?

You posted very egotistical claims prior to this event. Is your teacher proud of that sort of behavior? Especially when you didn't back them up??

So, in conclusion, despite your very loud posts about your advances and new secret techniques, you didn't do any better in this match than you did in your first match. All you can do is comment on how the guy LOOKED

Anyone who was there saw a lot of very cut up and nasty looking guys, who got their BUTTS KICKED... so he was in shape? He had NO FIGHTS and you are supposed to have been learning all this advanced fighting technique?

You've been talking about how much you've advanced since you last San Da match. But a wrestler with no fights and 8 month of striking hit your face at will?

I suggest that if you want anyone to take you are all seriously in the future, you stop posting and actually get in the ring and win a match...

GOOD DAY

[Mortal1]

Judging by the size and muscle definition I don't think there is testing. Some of those guys were ripped and huge.

[lkfmdc]

Djimbe ....

It is self evident from Ray's own post that he thinks he was "set up"

Though, the obvious question is, how was he set up being put in against someone with less experience, less fights and who weighed in EXACTLY THE SAME WEIGHT AS HIM...

2nd point, if Rya's guy was such a monster, why did a guy with less experience than Ray, LOTS less experience, go 4 minutes longer with the guy, and only quite because he was tired...

BY Ray's own posts, this guy with 8 months of striking training hit him in the face at will....

Prior to this, all we heard about was how Ray had learned all these new techniques, had advanced so much and how he was going to destroy ANYONE he fought in this event...

Maybe we should dig up those posts, where Ray said that with his new skills none of it would matter, he was going to beat anyone...

As for Ray's pathetic attacks on me or my fighters, also pretty self evident. We don't claim any advanced, secret internal yet seem to be winning all the time. We've said that Ray's ideas on fighting can not be proven. So far, we've been right

In two matches, both against guys who are pure beginners, both of whom never fougth before, Ray didn't last even a round....

If Ray wants us to believe he has the "answers" to fighting... he should at least be able to last a round with newbies with less than a year's experience

I predict Ray will enter more events, keep losing, and keep posting excuses why...

[rogue]

Also, I know you saw that guy. Everyone did. I know you set the matches. I can't help but think of you and the way you are and how I, and not one of your fighters, gets the first crack at that fresh guy who was obviously 210 but cut to 185 somehow.

I guess I was wrong about what I thought Ray meant.