San Da take 2

[MasterKiller]

With music strong I come,
with my cornets and my drums,
I play not marches for accepted victors only,
I play marches for conquer'd and slain persons.
Have you heard that it was good to gain the day?
I also say it is good to fall,
battles are lost in the same spirit in which they are won.
I beat and pound for the dead,
I blow through my embouchures my loudest and gayest for them.
Vivas to those who have fail'd!
And to those whose war-vessels sank in the sea!
And to those themselves who sank in the sea!
And to all generals that lost engagements,
and all overcome heroes!
And the numberless unknown heroes equal to the greatest heroes known!

--Walt Whitman

[rogue]

Ray, I am going to be blunt. It is cheap and rude to try and infer that you were set up... your comment about "or whoever set these matches" is what I am talking about.

Let's state the facts and we'll see what the forum thinks.

I didn't read Ray's post as meaning he was set up, but that it was the bad luck of the drawer for him.

I also didn't read him as making excuses other than the other guy was just plain better than he was and he got his ass kicked.

One forum member votes no harm no foul.

[Rockwood]

No doubt, I think Ray is right on to give props to his opponent. The guy was better than him on that day and won that fight, with class. These are the types of events that teach you more about yourself than you could learn in any other way.

Ray, congrats on stepping up. Keep analyzing, exploring and experimenting. It will really pay off in the long run.

-Jess O

[Wong Fei Hong]

mortal 1 - Amen to that comment all wing chun blocks are deflections !

Also i didnt think ray was implying anythign about being setup, if anyone can make it a vid clip i would be really happy to see this pls, Im on 56k so its a bit difficult to d/l a massive file.

[SevenStar]

I also didn't read him as making excuses other than the other guy was just plain better than he was and he got his ass kicked.

"Somehow God, or whoever set these matches, was against me and that's who I drew. He was the only fighter in that place I found intimidating and somehow that was my first match."

"I still had more fight in me, and my breath was good, but I was busted, and that guy just had a lot more killing in him left then I did."

"To lose to a guy like that makes it a little easier. Big... huge ... move well with power.... no surprise I get matched up with him. "

These are what I took to be excuses / justifications.

[Finny]

"Somehow God, or whoever set these matches, was against me and that's who I drew. He was the only fighter in that place I found intimidating and somehow that was my first match."

I can see how one could infer that he is implying a set-up or conspiracy here, but I personally think he was just lamenting his bad luck. Especially taken in conjunction with this quote:

"To lose to a guy like that makes it a little easier. Big... huge ... move well with power.... no surprise I get matched up with him."

I think Ray was just saying: "just my luck eh?"

[rogue]

Well 7, ray does say he got his ass kicked and that the guy was better than him. I don't see that as an excuse and it's a valid justification for his lose.

[Face2Fist]

ray

who was in your corner?

[Mr Punch]

Props Ray.

I don't think you were being an arse in your description for once btw, fwiw.

Do you think your possible lack of conditioning made a difference in the end? (And the same question to David Ross and Mortal and anybody else who saw it...) I probably won't believe you if you say 'no' !... but what do you think anyway?

Cheers for the report Mortal1.

[Ford Prefect]

Props for stepping into the ring and fighting people who are competitors. I hope it has openned your eyes to skill of those who tore through many similar amateur fights/fighters and are now fighting pro.

[SevenStar]

Well 7, ray does say he got his ass kicked and that the guy was better than him. I don't see that as an excuse and it's a valid justification for his lose.

That part, I agree with. But then later he makes the "Big....huge..." statement. Ray is the main one saying attributes training doesn't matter and fighting a bigger, stronger guy means nothing. Then he talks about losing to this huge, strong guy...

[rogue]

I agree with that part 7, but let's let him explain that himself. I'm for giving him a chance to come to grips with what happened and then explain where he thinks his training failed.

[Mortal1]

"mortal 1 - Amen to that comment all wing chun blocks are deflections !"

It's good to agree!

"Do you think your possible lack of conditioning made a difference in the end? (And the same question to David Ross and Mortal and anybody else who saw it...) I probably won't believe you if you say 'no' !... but what do you think anyway?
Cheers for the report Mortal1."

The fight did not go on long enough to test his stamina. So I couldn't tell Mat.

I have to say I find it hard to believe his opponent never fought. He was a ripped titan and he had skills. He overwhelmed Ray completely. I think it is very possible some of these guys weren't comlpetely truthful about how many previous fights they had. Or they fought in other arenas besides sanshou and then said that was their first fight. lol if that really was his first fight he certainly was well prepared. I'm not making excuses for Ray. Just being honest.

On a side note the mongolian team was feirce. They easily won their fights. Many of the american fighters looked all sterioded up. I mean these guys were ripped. The mongolians looked like a bunch of skinny asian dudes. Their timing and power generation, as well as their overall technique was a lot better. They knocked out quite a few guys easily. Many times the non mongolian fighters would just throw a high kick into the gaurd with no set up what so ever. I still don't understand this tactic. I also see no use for the spinning back fist. its sloppy sacrifices all structure and leaves your back totally exposed.

My two cents.

[Face2Fist]

"
The fight did not go on long enough to test his stamina. So I couldn't tell Mat.

I have to say I find it hard to believe his opponent never fought. He was a ripped titan and he had skills. He overwhelmed Ray completely. I think it is very possible some of these guys weren't comlpetely truthful about how many previous fights they had. Or they fought in other arenas besides sanshou and then said that was their first fight. lol if that really was his first fight he certainly was well prepared. I'm not making excuses for Ray. Just being honest.
.

My two cents.

maybe the guy had fight experience or maybe not, maybe he just trained hard, he was well prepared by his teacher/coach.

remember ray, has fighting experience too, he says he does throwdowns.

so saying that the guy had prior fighting experience and ray didnt is not true. if you look at it, ray had the advantage because he fought san shou before and he does throwdowns.

as for weight difference, the guy made weight so theres nothing wrong with that.

[SevenStar]

I have to say I find it hard to believe his opponent never fought. He was a ripped titan and he had skills. He overwhelmed Ray completely. I think it is very possible some of these guys weren't comlpetely truthful about how many previous fights they had. Or they fought in other arenas besides sanshou and then said that was their first fight. lol if that really was his first fight he certainly was well prepared. I'm not making excuses for Ray. Just being honest.

He was a wrestler, according to coach. So he's competed before, but probably not in a striking venue. However, that being the case, ray was not truthful either. he listed 1-0, but that doesn't include all of the throwdowns he's been to.

I still don't understand this tactic. I also see no use for the spinning back fist. its sloppy sacrifices all structure and leaves your back totally exposed.

It's a very powerful technique. it's not sloppy when done correctly, but it does momentarily expose your back. That's a trade-off you have to be willing to make if you use it.