EXCUSES & BS

[Mr Punch]

There is no "bull****" in BJJ.

Yeah there is. Maybe a different kind, but I've met some BS in BJJ, JJJ, submission wrestling, shooto, all of it. Don't kid yourself.

Every black belt I have met has been an exceptional martial artist.

So that would include you then. Are you an exceptional martial artist?

No fake discipline and respect. Spend ten minutes in a BJJ class and you will see more respect for each other and the instructor than you will see in ten years in some "dojos." Its EARNED respect. No forced bowing and ritual stuff that gives the "appearance" of discipline and respect.

JJJ, kyokushin, seidokan, muay thai, all these things have bowing... it's only forced if you're a numbnuts who goes to a numbnuts school. So what's wrong with these things if it's meant?

It's also a fairly new art and every belt rank can be verified.

Yep, we know. That's why at least two people have asked you for your full name, including one person who has a friend at your dojo, and one person who also trains in MI, who you have chosen to insult and whose teacher you have chosen to insult in a thread you started to complain about people insulting other people in WC.

...I have seen BJJ guys NOT want to be promoted. The worst thing you can have in BJJ is called a "belt that doesn't fit."

I've seen that in aikido, kendo, karate and wing chun... stick around pal.

Some of us are fed up with the Paper Tigers in martial arts.

[Ultimatewingchun]

We're already on our 3rd page of this thread, MESHEW, and you've been asked repeatedly what your full name is and who gave you your black belt.

AND STILL NO ANSWERS???!!!

I'm coming to the conclusion that you ARE trolling.

Later for this thread.

[MESHEW]

Belt Ranks of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
I could tell you that I am one of these belts or frm THT jujitsu or many others I can see now that it would make no difference you would then say he could have just picked a name and on and on we would go I was just stating some facts that hurt some of you. The problem is you are not looking at yourself pointing the finger at others to make your system look better this is what I meant by sad. SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE MESSAGE NOT THE MESSENGER IF YOU ARE PUTTING UP A DEFENSE YOU ARE NOT HEARING THE MESSAGE THAT KEEPS YOU CLOSED MINDED

The information presented here is correct to the best of our knowledge, but please note that this is not an official list, and belt ranks change frequently. In particular, the list of colored belts is not exhaustive. Also see the alphabetical listing.

This page lists 3750 people, including 1300 black belts, 355 brown belts, 531 purple belts, and 947 blue belts.

Format: Surname, Firstname "Nickname" (Instructor, Date) Note

Black Belt

Adiv, David (Royler)
Adrenalina, Hércules
Agostinho, Andrei (C. De Souza, 2002)
Aieta, Vinicius (Carlos Jr.)
Akins, Henry (Rickson, 2/2004)
Al Jamal, Samy
Alberto, Pedro (Spider)
Albuquerque, Alexandre (Draculíno)
Albuquerque, Francisco "Toco" (Carlson Sr.)
Alejandro, Carlos (Ralph)
Alirezaei, Yousef (A. Mohler, 12/2003)
Almeida, André Luiz Gomes de "Dedeco" (M. Bustamante, 1997)
Almeida, Cristiano (Dedeco)
Almeida, Milton Regis de (F. Mansor)
Alvarez, Sean (Renzo, 1999)
Alves, Antonio Thadeu Esteves (F. Mansor)
Alves, Fredson (S. Ribeiro)
Amaral, João (C. De Souza)
Amorim, Luis (F. Behring)
Anderson, Lowell (F. Santos)
Andrade, Andre Luiz Moreira de (F. Mansor)
Andrade, Igor (J. Moreira, 1/2000)
Andrade, Marcelo "Tetel" (Bolão)
Angelis, Muzio de (Jacaré)
ˆngelo, Breno (C. De Souza, 2002)
Anthony Marco "Chuck" (Bolão)
Anthony, Reed
Anthony, Thomson
Aranha, Marco (Soneca)
Arona, Ricardo (M. Bustamante)
Assunçao, Andre "Andre-zinho" (B. Ferrão, 2003)
Atalla, Roberto "Risada" (Bolão, 1998)
Augusto, Carlos (J. Roque)
Augusto, Luiz (Charles, 1/2000)
Aurélio, Marcos (A. Pederneiras)
Azulay, Nicin (Rolls)
Bagby, Dartanian (W. Braga Costa)
Bandeira, Joao (Bolão)
Baquerizo, Marc "Doc" (J. Moreira, 1997)
Barão, Luis (Jorge)
Barão, Roberto (L. Barão)
Barbieri, Patrick (R. Maia)
Barbosa, Marcelo "Presunto" (Dedeco)
Barbosa, Marco (R. Godói)
Barbosa, Rafael "Formiga" (Dedeco)
Barreto, Alessandro (Bolão)
Barreto, Carlos "Carlão" (Bolão)
Barreto, Marcos (Royler)
Barreto, Renato (Royler)
Barros, Ricardo (Ralph)
Barros, Romolo (Rickson, 1994)
Barroso, Paulo
Bass, Bob (R. Machado)
Bass, Joe (R. Machado)
Bassoli, Luciana
Batalha, Rodrigo (Dedeco)
Batista, Delfino
Batista, Jackson (J. Roque)
Bauer, Ronald (O. Fadda)
Bebeo, Roberto (Carlson Sr.)
Been, Peter de (Carlos Jr., 2/1999)
Behring, Salutar
Belfort, Vitor (Carlson Sr.)
Benaion, Sidney "Tita" (Royler)
Beneville, Ed (J. Moreira, 12/2003)
Bennis, John (J. Moreira, 12/2003)
Benvenutte, Vitório (R. Lage)
Bichara, Carlos (A. Paiva)
Bicudinho, Rodrigo (Soneca)
Bitetti, Amaury (Carlson Sr.)
Bittan, Patrick (F. Behring)
Bittencourt, Edmar (J. Roque)
Bittencourt, Ricardo (Renzo, 11/2004)
Bittencourt, Romulo (Renzo)
Bittencourt, William (M. Grosso)
Bloom, Randy (J. Moreira)
Bobadilha, José Eugenio (O. De Almeida)
Bocek, Mark (J. Roque, 12/2003)
Bodas, Paulo
Bolacha, Marcos Sergio (Draculíno)
Bolão, Sandro (Ryan)
Bond, Kenny (R. Magno, 9/20/2003)
Borgo, Leandro (F. Gurgel)
Bormac, Moises J. "Russo" (M. Saporito)
Botelho, Ricaldo
Botelho, Tadeu (A. Silva)
Brafman, Guilherme (Bolão)
Braga, Franjinha
Braga, Silvio "Araponga" (Soneca)
Branco, Leo Castello (Jacaré)
Brandão, Alexandre (The Zen Machine)
Brandão, Fábio (Bolão)
Brandão, Paulo
Brandão, Pedro (Carlos Jr., 6/2003)
Brandão, Ricardo (Bolão)
Bravo, Eddie "Twister" (J. Machado, 5/2003)
Brennan, Chris (R. Machado)
Brigadeiro, Eduardo (R. De La Riva Goded)
Britto, Alex (Bolão)
Brooking, Roger Patrick (Jacaré)
Brothers, Kathy (C. Machado, 8/11/2004)
Brown, James E. (C. Machado, 8/11/2004)
Bueno, Francisco
Bunn, Haroldo Victoriano "Cabelinho" (A. Paiva, 5/1999)
Burke, Jon (Royce, 9/2004)
Burrill, Tim (C. Machado, 2002)
Bustamante, Murilo (Carlson Sr.)
Cacella, Marcus "Kiko" (R. Medeiros)
, Sean (Royce)
Bond, Ulysses (A. Mohler)
Book, Jeff (Royce)
Borges, Marcos (Hiray)
Borges, Wesley (N. Liboni, 5/26/1999)
Boring, Josh (Sucuri)
Boris, Greg "Psyco" (Maguilla, 5/1999)
Borzell, Bryan (Renzo, 11/10/1998)
Botelho, Clifton (R. Barros)
Botelho, Irv (Royce)
Boyd, Sarah (A. Crane)
Bozin, Kirk (Charles)
Bradford, Steven (Jacaré)
Braga, Felipe (F. Gurgel)
Branco, Bruno
Branco, Pedrinho
Branco, Rodriqão
Brandão, Rodrigo
Brasure, Brent "Animal" (Ralph, 2/4/2003)
Breger, Ben (Charles)
Brissette, Pablo (A. Crane)
Broa, Marcos
Brooks, Kathryn H. (R. Murgel, 8/27/2004)
Brown, Mike (R. Machado)
Brown, Sundara (Caique)
Bubenzer, Luke (Carlson Jr., 10/2003)
Buda, João (N. Liboni, 5/1999)
Bueno, Reginaldo (Sarruço)
Bulong, Leo (R. Morales)
Burch, Dan (Caique, 9/1999)
Burgess, Steve (M. De Soares, 3/1999)
Burnett, Hans (D. Bagby, 3/17/2003)
Burnham, Darian (C. França Pires)
Burns, Jarred (Royce)
Burrow, Brian (M. Simas, 1/2000)
Burt, Craig (C. Machado)
Bush, Paul (M. Yamasaki)
Bustillo, Richard
Butler, Kevin (Crosley)
Byrd, Chris (Royce, 5/1999)
Caballero, Victor (J. De La O)
Calderon, Eduardo (G. Moreira Froes)
Calls, Bruno (R. Godói)
Camacho, Israel (R. Harris)
Cameron, Gary (Royce)
Campos, Andre
Capuan, Fabiano
Carabello, Nate (Relson)
Carbajal, Angel (Jacaré)
Careca, Eduardo (R. Godói)
Caroni, Hugo (Crolin)
Carrion, Maximiliano (M. Bustamante)
Carvalho, Mauro (Hiray)
Carvalho, Wagner (Relson)
Casey, Trevor (Bolão, 6/7/2003)
Castanheiras, Maurício (A. Pederneiras)
Castro, Daniel (R. Godói)
Castro, Mariano (R. Medeiros, 12/2002)
Caue, Pedro (N. Liboni, 5/26/1999)
Cavalo, Cristovão
César, Anísio (Paulo)
Chacura, Fernando (O. Alves)
Chambers, Earle (M. Santos, 11/21/2004)
Chang, Jerry (R. Medeiros, 7/2002)
Chappelow, James (Jacaré)
Charleston, Mills (Royce)
Chase, Sean (Relson, 2000)
Chestang, Chris (Jacaré)
Chhay, Kevin (M. Moses, 2002)
Chirino, Frank (A. Góes)
Chofard, Pierre (Jacaré)
Choi, John (Maguilla, 5/1999)
Chong, Yong J. (Charles)
Chris "Randori" (Sucuri, 12/2002)
Cidin, Italo (G. Santos)
Cimino, Suzanne (Charles)
Clarke, Robert (Royce)
Clarkson, Trevor
Clay, Bryan (Rickson)
Cleary, Wayne (Charles)
Click, Doug (Royler)
Clodfelter, Chris (Sucuri, 1/12/2003)
Cochran, Kent (R. Machado)
Codman, Ken (Charles)
Coelho, Jorge
Coelho, Marcelo (R. Ferro)
Coffee, Kevin (J. Popovitch, 2000)
Cofressi, Rob (Jacaré)
Cohn, Stefan (C. Valente)
Colanule, Tommy
Cole, Dunn (R. Machado)
Cole, Jon (Sucuri)
Collins, Grant (A. Crane)
Combs, Noah
Concon, Luis (Integração)
Conley, Sean (Rickson, 2/8/2003)
Constance, Rob (M. Simas, 1/2000)
Coombs, William T. "Tom" (Royce, 11/7/2002)
Cordeiro, Kahana (J. Morais)
Cornelius, Jeoff (Charles)
Coronado, Marco (Charles)
Corrêa, Bruno Leonardo (Carlos Jr.)
Corrêa, Charles (J. Medeiros)
Corrêa, Danilo (N. Liboni, 5/26/1999)
Corrigan, Nick Brownell (P. Brandão)
Corrigan, Shannon (Rickson, 1996)
Cosan, Roy (C. Valente)
Cowles, Benjamin (Charles, 5/1999)
Craig, Chris (T. Lutter)
Crawford, Brad (Carlson Jr.)
Cristina, Marisa (N. Liboni, 5/26/1999)
Criveland, Jimmy (Maguilla, 5/1999)
Crivelari, Antonio (N. Liboni, 5/26/1999)
Cumming, Justin (P. Migliarese, 7/7/2004)
Cunniffe, Mitch (Crosley, 6/4/2004)
Cunningham, Cris (R. Medeiros, 12/2002)
Cunningham, Derrick (A. Crane)
Curson, Ben "Dude" (Ralph, 12/18/2004)
Cutrera, Joe (M. Simas, 1/2000)
D'Agostinho, Edson (N. Liboni, 5/26/1999)
D'gostinho, Marcio (N. Liboni, 1/2000)
Daly III, Don (Caique)
Damasceno, Pedro (W. Ribeiro)
Damico, Lisa (L. Tyler)
Daniel, Cláudio
Daniel, Renato (N. Liboni, 1/2000)
Darrow, Brian (J. Moreira)
Davidson, Todd (P. Alberto)
Davis, Susan (Charles, 1/2000)
Day, Russel (Jacaré)
Dean, Dale (Royce)
Deaton, David (R. Medeiros, 12/2002)
Defigio, Dan (Jacaré, 1/2000)
Dejohn, Marc (A. Crane)
Dela Torre, Alex (Charles)
Delano, Cameron (Charles)
Moutran, Alexandre (N. Liboni, 1/2000)
Mullis, Frank (Renzo, 1/2000)
Muniz, Jair (R. Barros)
Murphy, Brandon (K. Florian, 4/2005)
Murphy, Ryan (Ralph)
Mynatt, Brian (Sucuri, 12/2002)
Nacfur, Alex (A. Wriedt)
Nacino, Jose (F. Nascimento)
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[Reggie1]

What exactly was the point of that?

I can copy and paste names from BJJ.org, too.

A simple 'no, I'm not going to give you my name' is probably sufficient.

[AndyM]

I hold a black belt in Brazzilian Jujitsu and we would never go around reapeating that I am learning the greatest system on earth

Didn't stop you that time did it?

I am finding the opposite with wing chun it's almost like they are scared to lose because it will damage wing chuns rep

Based on what?
Your vast experience?

I had someone tell me well my Grandmaster back in 1950 fought a boat full of sailors with knifes 12 men with knifes give me a break!

Yeah? Well I heard Royce can crack walnuts with his Butt Cheeks, and that makes me cry.

I don't mean to come off harsh
or rude but this is sad.

Don't mean to be harsh, or rude, but that's a Trolltastic 2 out of 10.
Please try harder.

What's your name again?
You know, I'm sure Da Gracies wouldn't think to highly of their BB's trolling MA forums.

[Knifefighter]

Well, I see nature abhors a vacuum. I leave for a couple of weeks and somebody takes my job.

[chisauking]

Now I know you have a sense of humour, Knivefighter

[SAAMAG]

Well, I see nature abhors a vacuum. I leave for a couple of weeks and somebody takes my job.

He didn't take your job...he's just a parrot without the experience. You on the other hand have fought.

I'd rather take criticism from you then this parrot.

[MESHEW]

. Stop the role-playing and associated nonsense in WCK. WCK is a fighting method, an approach to fighting and a means to train that approach. If someone wants philosphy, religion, social interaction, mysticism, the "kung fu life", to be someone's "disciple", to be part of a "family", etc. then by all means do that -- just don't bring it to WCK. None of that will help anyone be a better WCK fighter; it only detracts one from being a better fighter. And it just makes the WCK community look silly

Could not have said that any better Terrence

[SAAMAG]

NO ONE is disputing anything you've said as far as the BS going on within the microcosm of the wing chun community.

The problem lies in you expecting us as a whole to give you the "respect" simply because you've stated something that's been stated a million times over again on this thread by many individuals here.

The problem lies in that you cannot answer a simple question given to you. Instead you tap dance around like you're more of dancer then a fighter.

It's very simple. We don't hide here. A name, and a teacher. Not people you've "trained with", but the direct individual that gave you your rank.

For example:

-BB in TKD from Tang chin Wynn, TX
-Red sash in Southern Shaolin Diamond fists (Jingang quan) under Robert Melius,
TX
-Black Sash in Silent Dragon Shaolin (wu xing quan) under Master Lawrence Day,
FL
-MT under Phet Phongsavane and Sumnuk Gatsuang for a total of 5 years
instruction, and ten years including maintenance, TX
-WC from Chris Clark out of HI for 3 years, WT from Nico Lasalle for 3mts total
total practicing of wing chun abt 5 yrs, miscellaneous training with other
individuals from various lineage and locals, TX

There's some examples from my own background. This is only the major stuff. I've trained in other styles, and trained with other people across the globe...

Now it's your turn. Put up or shut up.

[anerlich]

I have just started training in Wing Chun and never heard such BS in my life the childish bickering back and forth about who's Wing Chun is better even amongst the people I train with.

You haven't spent much time on BJJ forums, then, huh? Plenty of trash talking goes on there, too.

I'm using my real name, and I can point you to a site that shows my own lowly BJJ rank if you wish (1 stripe blue). How about you?

[t_niehoff]

Meshew,

The point of my post is, in a nutshell, that we in WCK need to eliminate the BS that has become so prevalent in our art. The focus on performance does just that. Making up credentials or titles (grandmaster or BB in BJJ) is part of the BS in MAs. This is why you are being called on it. If you are what you say you are, then you should have no problem stepping up and proving it. If you're not, just say so -- no BFD. If we really want to eliminate the BS, we need to begin with ourselves. I don't call myself "master", I don't claim to be anything I'm not, I'm just a WCK practitioner that is trying to develop better skills and increase my abilities (performance), nothing more. The great thing about fighting (and not the pseudo-marital arts) is that it does build character, because the activity itself (fighting) really puts the "real you" out there for everyone, including yourself, to see. You can't fake performance.

Below is a link to a BJJ forum where they are discussing someone (Gene Simco) who is a legit purple but has recently started wearing a BB (to sell himself). If you read it, you might see why some of us that do practice BJJ don't like false claims of BB --

http://www.jiujitsugear.com/forum/in...opic=43970.225

"Why I hate Gene Simco:

Right now my right knee is killing me because I refuse to stop training even after severely tearing the LCL. The ring finger on my right hand has been swollen, stiff, and painful for two weeks, but I just tape it up and keep going back to training. My girlfriend is ****ed that I dont spend enough time with her and even when I do spend time with her, my mind is on jiujitsu. Instead of working my ass of at my career, Im following the sport bjj scene to find out who's on top and how they got there. Basically, for the last 8+ years I have been really obsessed with this grappling/jiujitsu thing and I am thankfully not a black belt yet.

A black belt should mean something. It should mean that, without a doubt, you have proven that you have put in your time and blood to improve yourself. The path to it should be extremely hard and at times very discouraging because none of the necessary skills come easily or quickly. While 4 year olds get their black belts in TKD and everyone and their mothers take up karate, I want to know that the art I train is too tough for most people.

So when someone like Gene comes along who takes the path of least resistance, a path lined with dollar bills and promises, it offends me more than you can imagine. He is EVERYTHING that is wrong with traditional martial arts and he is trying to pollute our waters with the very crap that BJJ had freed us from."

[Fresh]

What a wierd thread. Why is anyone even talking to this guy? Its like VTAA forum stuff.

[AndyM]

What a wierd thread. Why is anyone even talking to this guy? Its like VTAA forum stuff.

It's a bit like Darwin Theory in some ways.
This troll goes back to the other troll's with a negative result, thereby breeding a superior variety of troll, by which we all benefit, in testing our humanity in the future, enriching our arts, practice and gleefull lives.

Look at it like friendly Bacteria in the gut.
Unpleasant under the Microscope, but makes bowel movement a rapture, rather than a rupture.