The Science of self-defence!

[Ajax]

"Based upon simple scientific principles,soon 100 lbish women -with only a few minuets of Hikuta training under their belt-were able to smack their giant male coworkers (wearing specially made protective pads) across the room with ease .

"They became believers in the power of Hikuta one and all!!"

****, now that's a style

[Sharp Phil]

Unlike you, Jack "Savage," I do not run around claiming to be some sort of black bag spec-ops supersoldier who's trained as a Ninja and wields the physical power of the ancient Pharoah's bodyguards. My opinion is nevertheless more informed than yours, regardless of whatever security work in which you may or may not be engaged.

The rest of you will have to forgive Jack's somewhat sour attitude -- he's been bitter about the review ever since it was published. There is at least a seventy percent chance that this thread will now devolve into him hurling insults at me, which is his usual pattern.

Those looking at "Hikuta" from the outside are better served by an objective review of the material, rather than empty testimonials provided by believers in this contrived system. It fascinates me that the only rebuttal Jack can produce where my book review and video review are concerned is the same sad three-paragraph, 200-word blurb he's quoted before. His "short version" is more than half the total "review," if you can call it that -- the whole thing is this:

7. The quickest and most practical training I've seen for learning to strike is a book and video tape called "Hikuta: The Art of Controlled Violence." It used to be available from a company called the Hanford Press in Canton, Ohio. (It's a subset of the Suarez Corporation. Sorry, that's all I know about it. If you write me for more details on how to get this material, I won't respond. )

Hikuta sounds like a made up name to me and its history, as presented, sounds a bit far fetched. Nonetheless, the people who put the book and tape together deliver the goods in a way no other book or training I've seen matches.

8. There are two problems in striking another person: 1) not striking them hard enough to be effective and 2) hurting your own hand. Hikuta overcomes both these problems very nicely. You do not have to be a big bruiser to stun and undermine the attack of a big bruiser. Also, if you can get your hands on just about any hard object, a hairbrush, a glass, even a tooth brush or a pocket calculator, you've got a deadly and covert weapon - if you know how to use it.

Who is this "hard core training group" to which Jack refers so desperately? He's one individual who believes the future of the martial arts is Systema and who apparently works as some sort of marketer and consultant. That's hardly what I would call a "hard core training group," though it is apparently very important to Jack that this 200-word review carry more weight than actual objective analysis of Hikuta. Jack was so thrilled that another individual referred to him as the "real deal" that he quoted this at his own forum -- not once, but twice.

If you can find some substantive error in my reviews, Jack, you're welcome to bring it to my attention. I realize that the great sin I have committed in failing to be convinced regarding the validity of the art you study pains you great, tied as it is to your fragile sense of self-esteem, but sooner or later you will have to accept the fact that not all of us share your insecurities.

For further reading, I suggest:

Insecurity in the Martial Arts

How To Spot A Virtual Tough Guy

How To Spot A Virtual Sensei

Martial Arts Defense Mechanisms

Tenth Dan In Bul Shi Tsu: Absurd Claims and Martial Efficacy

[JacSavage]

To see an in-dept discussion on Phil's attempt at a review of DOK Lee's material go to:

You'll find posts from Kublar Al, a WW@ combatives expert, and a hard core trainee in various combative arts (who is probably well known to many of you) :

http://pub95.ezboard.com/fhikutacomb...icID=115.topic

There is a old saying : consider the source!

Who would you believe? Combative experts such as myself ( I've appeared in various internation and US magazines on Combatives ), AL , Trim(who has had articles published in Black Belt), Tsunami Surfer (well known combatives instructor and operator), Swifty ( a hard core trainee in various systems) and many others or Phil Elmore- a novice martial artist (despit 10 years of training!)/accountant/sci-fi buff/ AND expert (in his own mind mostly) reviewer of Martial Arts tapes!

There is something really sad about a novice like Phil attempting to critique' bonefied professional experts in their field! Stick to your bean counting Phil!

Jack Savage
HikutaCombatSystems.com


PS_
Better yet, why not get some Hikuta material and train a bit for yourself- discover the difference!

[apoweyn]

who would i believe? the guy that doesn't sound like he's trying to sell me something.

"discover the difference"?!

good grief, you sound like a used car salesman. this product may well be the be all, end all. but the more you talk, the more i doubt.

and while i'm admittedly not in the 'combatives' crowd, i've never heard of a one of you.

There is a old saying : consider the source!

beautiful! i am considering the source. i haven't read sharp phil's review. and i'm not sure i'm going to. but considering the source, he's a reviewer and you're a sales rep. it's not rock science figuring out that your description of hikuta is going to be at least as distorted as his.


stuart b.

[Sharp Phil]

I see I should have raised considerably the percentage chance that Jack "Savage" would repeat his previous pattern of behavior.

To see an in-dept discussion on Phil's attempt at a review of DOK Lee's material go to:

You'll find posts from Kublar Al, a WW@ combatives expert, and a hard core trainee in various combative arts (who is probably well known to many of you) :

It's interesting that Jack mentions "Kublar" Al, with whom I traded perfectly pleasant, civil e-mails. I distinctly recall telling Al that Jack was a big liability to "Hikuta," in that Jack maintains more of an active presence on the Web and generally makes a fool of himself everywhere he goes.

Jack lists a link to his own forum in which he attacks me, taking a page from Kungfoolss' rulebook in basically having a conversation with himself. Anyone who cares to see the actual conversation may find it here at the forum where it originally took place:

http://pub17.ezboard.com/fanimalabil...icID=545.topic

Unlike Jack's intellectually dishonest and self-masturbatory posting of only those posts favorable to him at Jack's own somewhat sad and desolate forum, the original thread contains my responses and the commentary of other interested parties.

Then there is this thread in which I posted a link to the review originally. The board op had to close the thread because Jack could not manage a single substantive response, relying instead on insults and impotent anger.

It's painfully obvious, Jack, that you believe any criticism or lack of belief in Hikuta constitutes a personal attack on you. I strongly suggest you take some time to examine why this is the case. Why is it that Al can speak on these subjects in a civil, adult manner, but you cannot?

There is a old saying : consider the source!

Yes, let's do that. One may take the word of a syntax-challenged, obviously bitter Hikuta "instructor" who has a vested interest in promoting the art in question, or we can actually look at the reviews that have so outraged you and try to find something about them that is substantively incorrect. I'm willing to bet you can't do that, as you've demonstrated that you are completely unprepared to address any criticism or rebuttal of your hysterical posts.

Who would you believe? Combative experts such as myself ( I've appeared in various internation and US magazines on Combatives )

You make it sound as if you've personally published articles on the topic, when in fact your "unit" has allegedly appeared in... what was it, S.W.A.T. magazine? The fact that you are some sort of armed security personnel does not automatically make you an expert in combatives, though I'm sure you'd like us to believe you are. But then, this thread is not about your background -- it is about Hikuta itself.

When you ask us simply to take your word that Hikuta is good because you are supposed to be a "combatives expert," you commit the logical fallacy called the Appeal to Authority.

, AL , Trim(who has had articles published in Black Belt), Tsunami Surfer (well known combatives instructor and operator), Swifty ( a hard core trainee in various systems)

Yes, Jack, everyone who agrees with you is automatically a "hard core trainee," while everyone who does not is... not, apparently. Sooner or later it will dawn on you that adults often disagree and are capable of doing it without making raving, braying *******es of themselves.

...and many others or Phil Elmore- a novice martial artist (despit 10 years of training!)/accountant/sci-fi buff/ AND expert (in his own mind mostly) reviewer of Martial Arts tapes!

I see you're using those psychic powers you've used before, Jack, in order to tell the assembled multitude what I think. I have never declared myself an expert on anything; I simply write about what I know and do so objectively and fairly. You are bitter because my review of the Hikuta material is generally not positive, and that is understandable -- but other than making ad hominem attacks on me and committing other logical fallacies, you are incapable of addressing anything within the review. The reason you have not done this is because the review is entirely fair and accurate.

As for my credentials as a reviewer, I will let the list of people who have submitted materials to me speak for itself. I expect there are a few names on that list of whom readers of this thread have actually heard, even if they've never heard of "Hikuta."

The Reviews Page, Which Links to Reviews By Category

There is something really sad about a novice like Phil attempting to critique' bonefied professional experts in their field! Stick to your bean counting Phil!

There is something really sad about a grown man who actually prefers people to call him Jack "Savage" lashing out in such a childish manner, attacking the messenger because he does not like the message (yet cannot actually find true fault with it).

You're a "bonefied professional," all right.

stuart b. wrote:
beautiful! i am considering the source. i haven't read sharp phil's review. and i'm not sure i'm going to. but considering the source, he's a reviewer and you're a sales rep. it's not rock science figuring out that your description of hikuta is going to be at least as distorted as his.

I hope you find the time to read the review, Stuart, as I think it is objective and will help anyone who's looking for some outside insight on this alleged Ancient Egyptian-inspired art. Jack, in the midst of his somewhat embarassing tirade, mentioned Justin Swift, with whom other posters may be familiar. He and I disagree on the merits of Hikuta -- he finds it worthwhile -- but he, at least, is capable of doing so like a grown-up.

[apoweyn]

phil,

perhaps i will. but if i don't, please understand that it's not a comment on your review. only on the fact that i now have very little interest in hikuta. of course, i probably shouldn't let jack savage's presentation of the material tarnish the thing as a whole. so, i'll take it under advisement.

cheers.


stuart b.

[tsunami surfer]

Hello All,

I have been reading the posts on this thread and while endorsing a friend and teammate it seems to have set off a firestorm. Jack can handle himself without my help but when phil took a couple of jabs at the unit jack and I are a part of I must respond. First off our unit has never been featured in SWAT magazine as far as I know but has been featured in SOF and Special OPS magazine. For a non military unit we can do anything the military units do except parachute onto a target. Also for a non military unit we have suffered 7 fatalities since 1990 nationwide(1 in our unit) These training accidents are nothing to be bragged about but it does demonstrate the level we train at. Many of us nation wide have branched out on our own to bring affordable and quality training to civilians and law enforcement. Sometimes we work for free. Our unit has trained with many Spec-ops units and they are surprised at our level of skill when they assume we are just a bunch of mall guards. There are only a few hundred of us across the country which makes us a very select few.

I have worked with Jack for over 12 years and he is one of the finest operators I have been priviledged to work with. While I am not interested in his Hikuta system and I know nothing about it we have sparred and grappled many times over the years. He tests what he knows against what I know.

I have learned many things from Jack and I hope he has learned a few things from me. Most of you who read the few posts I put up know that I am normaly not this long winded so I apologize for the length of this post.

Make no mistake about the Special Response Teams of the DOE and the federal couriers that haul nuclear material. We are a proud organisation that will not tolerate disrespect from a wannabe like sharp phil

Nuff said

[Sharp Phil]

And what is it that I "wannabe," exactly? I don't recall ever expressing an interest in being seen as some sort of "tactical operator." The fact is that any "disrespect" you believe to be directed at your "unit" -- which we could all view a lot more clearly if both of you would stop dancing around it and simply admit precisely what it is you do, and where -- is purely the result of the childish manner in which Jack behaves. I've no doubt that your profession is impressive enough all on its own, but this is not enough for Jack; he constantly tries to be seen as more, affecting the pretense of being some sort of black bag Delta-type super-operator.

I don't know you, tsunami, and certainly don't blame you for standing behind a friend -- but I have never been anything but civil to Jack unless and until he starts raving like a *******. Read through the linked threads and you'll see this is true.

If you wish your organization to be viewed with the respect it is due, your problem is not me -- it is the fact that Jack represents you and refers to you constantly in his quest to be seen as a martial arts authority.

[tsunami surfer]

Well phil I don't know you either but I do know Jack!

[Watchman]

The fact is that any "disrespect" you believe to be directed at your "unit" -- which we could all view a lot more clearly if both of you would stop dancing around it and simply admit precisely what it is you do, and where

I posted a link that I thought spelled it out clearly. Here it is again:

Department of Energy Special Response Teams

http://www.specwarnet.com/taclink/Federal/doe_srt.htm

[Sharp Phil]

Yes, I gathered that much; I've also been told that Jack works for this company in that regard. Most people would be satisfied being this sort of security personnel, and would feel no need to describe themselves with such purposefully vague black-bag spec-ops "operator" affectations as Jack has used in the past. Let's stipulate, then, that Jack and tsunami surfer are security professionals and not merely mall ninja (though in the case of my previous post I was hoping he'd actually tell us precisely where he works, and what he does, in terms that are a little less intentionally spooky than he's used in the past).

The issue I raise despite that is, how does any of that have any bearing on Hikuta? And how would any of it make Jack an expert on combatives? I submit that anyone capable of producing such ridiculously absurd claims as appear on his website, or who buys into the ridiculously contrived history of the art, should not be viewed as an authority on the martial arts in general or military combatives specifically.

Of course, nothing in my book review or my video review of the DOK Lee package has anything at all to do with Jack; he simply appeared here to have one of his predictable temper tantrums because he cannot stand the fact that somewhere in this world there is someone who is not a believer in Hikuta, which is a terrible blow to the image of himself in which he desperately needs to believe.

I've not been particularly pleasant to him in my messages subsequent to his appearance here, though I generally try be polite. Sadly, Mr. Sellner has demonstrated repeatedly that he is not capable of a civil discussion where Hikuta is concerned. It's too bad, really. He's probably not such a terrible person in real life.

[JacSavage]

Actually T surfer is incorrect- our unit WAS featured in SWAT last year. As a matter of fact, we were in 4 or 5 national and international tactical mags and trade journals over a 2 year perod.

Elmore writes overly long disorations -nit picking mostly. Basically he tries to throw up a smoke screen to disguise and take attention away from irreutable facts:

Fact: Elmore is a novice martial artist not qualified to evaluate combatives tapes or systems.

Fact: Elmore is a accountant/amatuer ghost writer - NOT a professional reviewer of tapes or courses.

Fact: Elmore has had a jihad against Hikuta since it has become apparent that it is far more effective and effecient than anything he has ever "studied".

Fact: Elmore has a babyish attitude due to attention being brought on his many deficientcies.

Fact: Elmore has never seriously trained and is in terrible phyical condition.


What will this pathicic piece of crap do about these deficiencies? Get his act together? Perhaps one day be actually QUALIFIED to do his evaluations? No Way- he'll continue to eat ding dongs and heap abuse on those of us who are ACTUAL WARRIORS.

Jack Savage

[Sharp Phil]

Actually T surfer is incorrect- our unit WAS featured in SWAT last year. As a matter of fact, we were in 4 or 5 national and international tactical mags and trade journals over a 2 year perod.

Ah, so I was right about that. Good.

Elmore writes overly long disorations -nit picking mostly.

Is this your way of complaining that your lips get tired reading my posts? I'm sorry, Jack, that those of us with multisyllabic vocabularies make those of you who run to the more monosyllabic feel linguistically inferior. That can't be helped. Your definition of "nits" is interesting, though, in that I continually raise substantive issues that you invariably ignore.

Basically he tries to throw up a smoke screen to disguise and take attention away from irreutable facts:

"Irreutable?"

Fact: Elmore is a novice martial artist not qualified to evaluate combatives tapes or systems.

No, I am an experienced martial artist who is honest about his background and is not troubled by a lack of official credentials. I am entirely qualified to evaluate products -- something that numerous individuals within the self-defense industry obviously believe because they have chosen to submit materials to me for professional reviews.

Fact: Jack "Savage" Sellner is bitter that my review of the DOK Lee package was not more positive.

Fact: Elmore is a accountant/amatuer ghost writer - NOT a professional reviewer of tapes or courses.

No, I am a professional writer who makes his living producing technical documentation, maintains a profitable side business as a ghost writer, and produces professional evaluations of media, books, and products. I have a BS in Accounting and also perform accounting functions for my employer.

Fact: Jack "Savage" Sellner is desperate to be seen as an authority on the martial arts and cannot produce anything of quality on his own. He must, therefore, attack me in an effort to falsely elevate himself. His attempts are transparent and unsuccessful.

Fact: Elmore has had a jihad against Hikuta since it has become apparent that it is far more effective and effecient than anything he has ever "studied".

This is the silliest and the most paranoid of your assertions, Mr. Sellner. I am not on a "jihad" against anything or anyone. I find Hikuta silly and my evaluation of the DOK Lee package did not change my opinion of it.

Fact: Jack "Savage" Sellner is angry that I do not like Hikuta, and so insecure about this fact that he cannot help but lash out at me. Jack "Savage" Sellner cannot accept the fact there exist in the world people who are not believers in the system so intertwined with his fragile sense of self-worth.

Fact: Elmore has a babyish attitude due to attention being brought on his many deficientcies.

Now you're just being petulant, Jack. What's next? The famous "I'm rubber, you're glue" defense? How about a rousing chorus of "I know you are, but what am I?" I have been nothing but civil in my initial posts on the subject of Hikuta, though I've been less than gentle in turning aside your juvenile attacks and ploys.

Fact: Jack "Savage" Sellner is ill-prepared to engage in debates of this kind and displays a puerile attitude when his childish and unprofessional behavior is identified for what it is.

Fact: Elmore has never seriously trained and is in terrible phyical condition.

Fact: Jack "Savage" Sellner is not psychic, does not know in what activities I do or do not engage, and has an unhealthy and vaguely ****erotic obsession with the physical states of those with whom he disagrees.

Having just recently visited my physician for a routine check-up, I shall have to phone him and take him to task for failing to inform me that I am in "terrible physical condition." I shall also have to give the owners of the gym to which I belong a stern talking to for failing to inform me of the great danger in which I place myself when working out on their premises.

What will this pathicic piece of crap do about these deficiencies? Get his act together?

Starting to become unraveled, Jack? Pressure getting to you?

Fact: Jack "Savage" Sellner is so upset that he cannot persuade me to hold a different opinion that he is reduced to intellectually bankrupt, grade-school-worthy argot.

Perhaps one day be actually QUALIFIED to do his evaluations? No Way- he'll continue to eat ding dongs and heap abuse on those of us who are ACTUAL WARRIORS.

What's the matter, Jack? Again I must ask: Are you afraid that others will find value in my opinions? I see you still cannot identify anything within those opinions that is not accurate.

Fact: Jack "Savage" Sellner is so bitter about my Hikuta review that he can only attack me -- because he cannot defend that in which he so ardently believes.

Fact again: I'm not much of a fan of "ding dongs." I'm more of a "Twinkie" or "Zinger" person.

You really ought to be proud of yourself, Jack. Reading threads like this, I'm sure people will just be crawling out of the woodwork and throwing money at you, eager to train with such a brilliant, professional, mature individual.

Of course, it's possible a few of them will find it incredibly pathetic that you insist on referring to yourself as a "warrior." I can't imagine a more obvious manifestation of your insecurity than that. Maybe if you repeat it a few more times, you'll start to believe it -- but I wouldn't count on it having much of an affect on the rest of us.

[haamu]

Oh dear...

I am sorry for starting this thread, it wasn't my intention to start an open flamewar. I am also sorry for dissing your website Jack. Now, why don't we kids just let it be and go home?

Peace,
haamu

[Sharp Phil]

It's really not your fault, haamu. Jack and I have had this argument many times before; he usually starts falling apart after the first couple of posts, though the rate at which he comes unwound in the course of these arguments seems to be accelerating, of late.

When I first encountered Mr. Sellner online I was never anything but civil to him. At James Sass' now-closed Close Combat discussion forum, a discussion of Hikuta came up and Jack did his best to defend its contrived history and absurd claims. When others -- myself included -- tried to point out to him exactly what he was trying to defend, his exact response was... let me see... "Eat crap and die," I believe. It went downhill from there, and he has been incapable of behaving like an adult in conversations with me ever since.

Hikuta and Jack "Savage" have been fairly roundly derided at almost every messageboard where they've been discussed, from e-budo (host to some long threads) to various EZboards (from which Jack was banned) to Self Defense Forums (where the moderators got so sick of the topic that they more or less promised to lock all future Hikuta-related discussion).

To be honest, I think my reviews of Hikuta have done more to promote awareness of the art than anything Jack has done, as most of the participants in the threads in which I find myself arguing with him (an experience akin to trying to talk down a mental patient -- you never know what leap of spurious logic he'll make next) had never heard of Hikuta before the threads in question were started.