Effects of chaos on combat

[fiercest tiger]

Fires have stopped for a month but my suburb had a storm that flatterned it! Thanks for caring etc,

im no fighter, but i will fight if i have too! If not i'd rather stay clear of them if you know what i mean?

belmore park where you in oz? who did you train with? only taiji and baqua there not worth it...hahaha just kidding jon!

anyways thanks and take care
FT

[jon]

Ego_Extrodinaire
My whole point has been that you cant mathematicaly compute anytype of complex system. If you could 'Chaos' theory would not exist. They try and they try but like the weather [notice im relating here] its just not possible to be totaly accurate

nospam
Nice post but just to throw a rather large spanner in the works.
Check my proflie... I study Bagua and Hung Ga under two very traditional instructors and this is basicaly how they teach 'addaptation'. Dont just assume im some in some flash in the pan new age school becouse in fact its quite the opposite.

extrajoseph
hehehe man if only you knew exactly how often im there, when i see something i like ill get back to you Still Con is pretty good i wouldnt knock his skill.
My sifu 'used' to teach there so i guess it was once much better

fiercest tiger
Glad you could come out to play Now im just gonna keep trying to avoid those claws...

"Never under estimate your opponent, fighting is never easy!"
* Unless your fighting drunk migits with no arms and lepar feet...
Yeah that will learn ya!

"Are you into this chaos theort because of your bagua training being a daoist art?"
* I actualy read up on Chaos years ago but ive found it actualy fits in quite nicely with many of the theorys behind Bagua. I wont go into that though as my understanding is pretty dim really.

"What is primordal chaos?"
* I have absolutely no idea If you would care to explain ill be happy to listen though.
"so after you learn the bagua form you learn how to use free form or no form?"
* Hard one to tackle in some ways. Both would be the ultimate but at the moment im free forming the most as im not at the level to totaly move without thought. Good question ya tricky bastich!

"fighting is no set pattern agree with you here, but setting up and using entry techniques can flow as a form if you know how!"
* Yeah i would agree with you here, it would be nice to get to the level of being able to gain entry and postion without having to resort to set patterns but it would be darn hard. Entering is when the mind is often most active and hard to settle.
"Do you do push hands yet? "
* I learnt this in Hung Ga although ours was a little different, though not much really. I learnt the Tai Chi version though i havent practiced it much yet, been hard on form and mixing up what i know at the moment.

Ok i think thats it
Thanks for everyones posts

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Jon,

You can compute chaos systems - it is covered in maths. You can even compute probabilistic systems as it is the foundation of quantum interactions, fluid dynamics and systems ithin social science.

Being able to compute a process does not mean 100% accurate forecast. Some systems by tyheir very nature is not forecastable. Any measurement comes with an error tolerence be it the first or second order approximation etc.

You seem to have a very poor understanding of basic maths.

[jon]

Ego
"Some systems by tyheir very nature is not forecastable. Any measurement comes with an error tolerence be it the first or second order approximation etc"
* Hence chaos, choas IS maths im aware of this. However the idea of somehow turning it into an equation is totaly flawed. The best you can do is to define it in terms.

"You seem to have a very poor understanding of basic maths."
*Never claimed otherwise, you could says maths is not my friend.
Obviously you are a maths wiz so i wont try to compete,
Then again i was trying to talk about fighting not math, if i wanted math i would not be here.

[nospam]

jon,

I'm afraid I do not have a reference to your comment to me. Perhaps you believe I offered a critique of you and yours? If so. No. At least not directly or purposefully, unless somewhere in some line of what I touched upon relates to you.

nospam.

[jon]

nospam
Your post simply talks a lot about traditional instruction.
"Practical application of Traditional movements incorporates chaotic principle."
* My point was that i do come from a traditional system hence my outlook.
Your post just came accross a little as though you believed i was studying some kind of waxed up new age mindboxing.
"One other problem is that many under the guise of traditional teaching are in fact, not."
* You may not have directed this comment to me and i guess i took it a little personaly.
I just couldnt help thinking your post seemed as though it came with an 'i know the real way feel' i wish to discuss approches not be told what is and is not traditional.
Either way your post was interesting and my intension is not to detract from your point only to state that my views are the result of a traditional kung fu education and extensive study. There not just something i picked up from the back of a mcdojo flyer.
All the best
Jon

[nospam]

jon,

Point well taken, as is, I am sure, your training and gung fu instruction- traditional or otherwise.

I often come across as "I know better" - stems from my knowledge and belief in not only my self, but in my gung fu lineage. I am sure we all share that in common or at least I would hope so. Sing a good song, I say

I did not "aim" any of my words personally at you or yours- why would I.

I liked your topic. It grabbed my interest. I am not "here" to call anyone down, but realise that difference in opinion shall occur, and hopefully so! Challenge me (mentally) and I will challenge back This is good in my books. For any fool who challenges me physically on an Internet forum - well, it's generally not worth further response, eh?

Looking forward to more of your posts, Jon; and perhaps in you sharing and relating your training.

nospam.

[jon]

Hi nospam
"I often come across as "I know better" - stems from my knowledge and belief in not only my self, but in my gung fu lineage. I am sure we all share that in common or at least I would hope so. Sing a good song, I say"
* I have been on this mad trip lately trying to not sound like im bragging or pretending to know better. Your post made me think twise, you are quite right! If you have something to offer which your proud of you should not be afraid to open your mouth. We are here to learn not to simply correct each other. You were only stating your opinion and im sorry for trying to tell you it was not relevent to myself. As you stated that is not the point, many will find your post relevent and it had a great message. I just assumed for some dumb reason you were talking directly to me.
As i said i really liked your post, i just took it a bit the wrong way. After some of the things on these boards ive become a little sketchy about how some people percieve my comments.
Im sorry for trying to tell you how to post that was stupid of me, i should just learn to realise not everything is directed at me personaly.
Thank you for your post i enjoy reading your views and im sorry to jump on a silly issue.
All the best Jon

P.S If you dont mind my asking, seeing as you brought it up
What system and linage are you from? I checked your profile but thought you may like to expand on it.
Im a Hung student of YC Wong linage
Bagua from Chiang Jing-Chao and Sun Lu Tang linage.

[Charp Chui]

Bruce Lee was once asked this question..."What would you do in a fight?" In repsonse he simply stated..."I don't know."

[nospam]

jon,

Truely, no apology needed. We conduct ourselves by experience. And many around here have been "attacked". I don't mind the challenging (philosophy, tactics, reasons) posts, as I know I have been challenged on my posts and have gone back, mulled it around, and actually changed my opinion or previous statement- always with a wry smile

My lineage is Bak Hsing CLF. Tam Sam, Tam Fei Pam/Lung Gee the gent that resides in canada), Leung Lap Yau (Raymond), and Barry Richardson. And as many believe their system is the 'real thang', so do I. My lineage, as is many others, is a tried and tested method of both training and usefulness. And I also believe that it has not suffered the degradation of individual talent or system since Tam Sam's days- in fact, I firmly believe it has gotten better and much more refined in its teaching and application. Why? There are very few recognised as masters that are allowed to teach under our lineage. My sigung, from many students, recogised only 2 of his students as masters. One of those being my teacher, Barry Richardson. And from his students, none have been recognised - although I and one other classmate of mine are working very hard at training, understanding, and teaching our gung fu. Proof is in the pudding, and I'm still mixing the ingredients.

nospam.