How useful are the sandbags for leg and wrist?

[IronFist]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

When I work on the

- "weight pulley", my goal is to "develop body respond against outside pulling force" (plus few others goals). My goal is not to develop big muscle and arm strength.
- "bench press", I work on strength 100%.

I'm confused what the difference is. How is the first one not also strength?

Do you mean because the 340 reps you do are training more for endurance (given that you are doing 340 reps of something the weight by definition is not "heavy")?

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by IronFist

I'm confused what the difference is. How is the first one not also strength?

Do you mean because the 340 reps you do are training more for endurance (given that you are doing 340 reps of something the weight by definition is not "heavy")?

If I want to use weight pulley to build strength and big muscle, I'll use

- more weight,
- less rep,
- less speed.

When I work on weight pulley, that's not my goal. This is one of my drills that I do everytime.

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9...ghtpulley4.jpg

[-N-]

Originally Posted by IronFist

I'm confused what the difference is. How is the first one not also strength?

Do you mean because the 340 reps you do are training more for endurance (given that you are doing 340 reps of something the weight by definition is not "heavy")?

The focus is more on relaxation, explosive reaction, and stability.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by -N-

The focus is more on relaxation, explosive reaction, and stability.

Thanks for the better words. Most people when they pull their weight pulley. they will:

- pull the weight off the ground first.
- pull it higher.
- release it but don't let the weight to drop back down to the ground.
- after many rep, they will finally let the weight to drop back down to the ground.

Please notice that in the whole process, his body is tense because he has to deal with the weight all the time.

I like to start with

- the weight is still on the ground and my rope is loose.
- I suddently pull it off the ground.
- I then release my rope, the weight is still in the air.
- I then let the weight go back down to the ground again.

Between each pulling, I'm not dealing with the weight. This way, my body is relax. When I pull my weight, I use maximum speed (speed prevent me from using too much weight). I also have to use my feet to maintain strong rooting.

[-N-]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

Thanks for the better words. Most people

[...]

Please notice that in the whole process, his body is tense because he has to deal with the weight all the time..

You're welcome.

In Chinese, we call this dead strength. It has its use, but is very rigid.

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

Between each pulling, I'm not dealing with the weight. This way, my body is relax. When I pull my weight, I use maximum speed (speed prevent me from using too much weight). I also have to use my feet to maintain strong rooting.

This is more useful for us as fighters. This develops flexibilty and agility of the explosive reaction and instantaneous relaxation. The sharper the transitions, the greater the power, and the better ability to put together combinations.

[IronFist]

Are you guys saying there are different ways to contract your muscles?

[-N-]

No.

It's about being able to make fast transitions between contracted and relaxed states and vice versa. And also about being able to make core stability adjust dynamically while doing so.

When the weight is falling, you train instant relaxation so that your structure is not detectable by your opponent. Then you snap the weight at the bottom of its travel to train ability to instantly create the structure and connection you need to strike or throw. You train to make it appear and disappear.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by IronFist

Are you guys saying there are different ways to contract your muscles?

If you want to grab on your opponent and "shake" him, how do you use your gym equipment to help you to develop that ability (when training partner is not available)?

"Fast pull and fast push" is the way to develop that ability.

[sanjuro_ronin]

We gone over this before guys:
General strength training makes muscles stronger
Specific strength training makes them more powerful within the context of what you are training.
In short, for pulling moves your strength your pulling muscles with general strength exercises such as Pull-ups, deadlifts, rows, curls AND to use them in a specific way of pulling, you train THAT specific way of pulling.

[wenshu]

I like to use the cable machines for shoulder throw type set ups. But that's more about foot work at least to me, the weight just gives you some resistance to work against.

One thing that is really hard to work on with normal weight training is strengthening the waist turn.

[IronFist]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

If you want to grab on your opponent and "shake" him, how do you use your gym equipment to help you to develop that ability (when training partner is not available)?

I train to get stronger so that I have more available muscle tension with which to "shake" my opponent.

[IronFist]

Originally Posted by wenshu

I like to use the cable machines for shoulder throw type set ups. But that's more about foot work at least to me, the weight just gives you some resistance to work against.

One thing that is really hard to work on with normal weight training is strengthening the waist turn.

You'd be better off with full contact twists.





edit - unless you believe there is some "sport-specific" carryover to that exact cable machine motion you are doing.

[wenshu]

That's not a bad exercise.

Doesn't mimic the setup for a shoulder throw and the range of motion is a too limited for the degree of waist turn.

A pulley set up offers greater options for certain movements that aren't possible with a throwing dummy or free weights. There are specific movements that if you want to add continous resistance you need the cable set up.

[IronFist]

Sport-specific training is kind of nonsense anyway, though.

Want to be better at shoulder throwing? Get big and strong and practice your shoulder throws.

Doing some cable exercise that roughly approximates doing a shoulder throw isn't really helping any.

It's kind of like those guys who use the golf club attachment on the pulley machine and think it's making their golf swing more powerful...

There are two things that will make your golf swing more powerful:

1) improving your ability to do the movement through increased efficiency, muscle memory, CNS adaptation, etc. (which you develop by doing the movement, not by doing an approximation of it with a pulley machine)

2) by having stronger muscles that can generate more tension and contract faster

The golf club attachment on the pulley machine does neither of those.

Sport specific training doesn't help because it doesn't mimic the conditions of the sport. It mimics the conditions of doing something on the pulley machine.

Look, is it better than nothing? Most likely. But is it optimal or ideal? Definitely not.

Tiger Woods can drive a ball further than Ronnie Coleman. Ronnie Coleman is stronger than Tiger Woods.

Imagine if Tiger had Ronnie's Strength, or if Ronnie played golf and had Tiger's muscle memory and technique.

Figure out the muscles you need to do whatever it is you do and make them stronger.

Two identical twin boxers have both been training for 2 years and have the same technical ability, speed, and level of skill. One of them can deadlift 500 pounds and bench 300, the other one does silly nonsense like punching with the cable machine.

Who do you think can hit harder?

[IronFist]

I even recall hearing somewhere that doing your sport specific movement against resistance makes you slower. I know it feels faster when you take the weight away, but that's because there's less resistance. Saying it "feels faster" is about as reliable as a butt dyno telling you that your car "feels faster" after you put a huge exhaust on it that screwed up your back pressure and actually reduced your horsepower. But it "feels faster."

I can't remember the source. Does anyone know?

The study I think it cited was that runners who run with parachutes behind them don't actually improve their speed because they're not running any faster, and because the motion with the added drag is different from a normal running motion so it's not training the correct movement. The article said to improve your speed past a certain point you have to run on a decline surface so that with the aid of gravity your legs are actually able to move faster and that will train the pathways to make your body move faster.

Does that sound familiar to anyone? I may have some things confused here.

Don't quote me on any of this.