MMA a legal weapon?

[GeneChing]

I was going to post this on the Busted MMA fighters and fights thread as its a reaction to what's been happening there, but it's worthy of discussion as a topic on its own.

Don’t Treat Martial Arts as Weapon - Valuev


Former heavyweight boxing champion Nikolay Valuev
17:04 15/03/2012
MOSCOW, March 15 (RIA Novosti)

Former heavyweight boxing champion Nikolay Valuev, now a Russian MP, hit out Thursday at plans of fellow lawmakers to make martial arts an aggravating factor in assaults, similar to the use of a weapon.

The draft bill was proposed after cage fighting champion Rasul Mirzaev punched a student outside a Moscow nightclub. The student, Ivan Agafonov, died several days later, and Mirzaev is on trial in connection with his death.

“Too many people fall under the current draft bill,” Valuev told the Ekho Moskvy radio station.

“A person goes to the gym, starts learning mixed martial arts, hits someone a week later and that’s going to be an aggravating factor.”

He added that the bill had been criticized at the committee stage in the Russian parliament, and was not certain to become law.

The 38-year-old Valuev first held the WBA heavyweight title in 2005 when he beat John Ruiz, before losing the belt to Chagaev in 2007. He regained the vacant title in 2008 against Ruiz and retired three days after his defeat to Haye in 2009.

Valuev, known as the Beast from the East, became an MP for the ruling United Russia party following the December 2011 parliamentary elections.

[sanjuro_ronin]

No MMA is NOT a weapon, just like any other MA is NOT a weapon and for the exact reasons he says.
HOWEVER !
Trained fighters SHOULD be viewed as "weapons".
By Trained fighters I mean those that compete at the professional level ( although in places where there is only amateur MMA I think they would fall into that category too).
Of course this goes for EVERY fighter and not just MMA.

[Lucas]

but then for non professionals, how do you gague whether or not that person is actually profecient enough with their MA to even be that 'deadly'. people die in altercations against non trained people as well, so i could see it being a tricky situation. what if the guy that punches and accidentally kills a guy just had some weird luck but actually SUCKS at martial arts?

[sanjuro_ronin]

but then for non professionals, how do you gague whether or not that person is actually profecient enough with their MA to even be that 'deadly'. people die in altercations against non trained people as well, so i could see it being a tricky situation. what if the guy that punches and accidentally kills a guy just had some weird luck but actually SUCKS at martial arts?

One could perhaps gauge based on the damage done but that is highly subjective of course.
A professional fighter is viewed in a far different way than a recreational practitioner of a given MA, much like a professional driver's skill is viewed in a different way to that of the recreational driver.
IF one is going to state that a MA practitioners skill can be viewed as a "lethal weapon" then one must define not only "lethal weapon" under the context of empty hands BUT also define WHICH MA fall under that category.

[GeneChing]

Remember when people used to bandy around the ol' "hands registered as a deadly weapon"? Other issues include:
What bureau in charge of registering fighters as legal weapons?
What will the criteria be for mandatory legal weapon registration?
Once registered, how long does a fighter remain categorized as a legal weapon?
Would this bar fighters from entering certain establishments?
How might 'intention' figure into fighters walking around casually if they were classified as legal weapons and therefore always armed?

There are more issues. This is just off the top of my head. It becomes a delicate legal issue. It's not an accolade. It's totally punitive. If this classification were to ever become law (and I'm skeptical that it will - this is more for the sake of argument), it would be used to increase the penalties against fighters when grievous injuries are incurred. In the case of assault, everything changes when a 'weapon' is involved.

what if the guy that punches and accidentally kills a guy just had some weird luck but actually SUCKS at martial arts?

If someone dies by your hand, you are S.O.L. no matter what. In the volunteer medical work I do, DBR (death by restraint) is a serious issue.

[Syn7]

So at what point EXACTLY does martial skill become an aggravating factor?

Just how much skill does one have to posses in order to be considered as having an unfair advantage in a hand to hand street fight? Do other weapons or multiple opponents make it "fair"?

How does a court quantify these factors? Do we consider aptitude or simply time in?

I think it's fair to say PRO fighters fall under this sort of rule. There are already laws on the books addressing that. If you fight for money, you have an unfair advantage over somebody who doesn't. But I'm not willing to go any further than that. If you jump into the amateur arena you have a clusterfukc of maybes and what ifs. Some will get away with wrongs but many will be classified unfairly.

[GeneChing]

Convicted Killer Reaches Martial Arts World Final in Moscow

© RIA Novosti. Alexander Nesterov
18:59 25/03/2014

ST. PETERSBURG, March 25 (R-Sport) - A convicted killer whose case caused Russia's ethnic tensions to flare up has qualified for the final of a global martial arts competition in Moscow.
Mirzaev, a 2010 world champion in the martial art of sambo, was convicted of reckless manslaughter after 19-year-old student named Ivan Agafonov died from a single punch outside a Moscow night club in August 2011.
When Mirzaev, who hails from the largely Muslim region of Dagestan, was freed from jail on time served in November 2012, it sparked protests by ethnic Russian nationalist groups upset at what they saw at a lenient sentence.
Since his release, the 27-year-old has sought to rebuild his career in the ring, and on Tuesday he secured a place in the final of the 68-kilogram division at the World Sambo Super Cup in Moscow. He will face fellow Russian Vadim Shagin on Wednesday.
Mirzaev has also resumed his career in mixed martial arts, taking his career record to 6-0 with a unanimous win by decision against Erzhan Estanov in March last year.
The World Sambo Super Cup runs through Wednesday and features male and female fighters from 29 countries.

A year for punching someone to death.