Iron Palm Seminar 6/18/2011

[Razaunida]

Its on like Tron...but this game is racist.

They hold the paddles upside down.

[SimonM]

if after a one day seminar you can break concrete slabs, what are the intense dedicated bag training, meditation and medicinal herbs for???

either iron palm is fake, or the iron lotus guys are fake, doing easy trick breaks.

Bawang's logic is actually pretty sound here.

[faxiapreta]

Bawang's logic is actually pretty sound here.

Yep, he's actually using some critical thinking skills.

[sanjuro_ronin]

A little FYI from someone who has done BOTH methods of hand conditioning.
I was breaking board and bricks and slaps BEFORE I ever started IP.
My hands were also a bit ****ed up, as most kyokushin guys hands tend to be.
IP training made my hands look better, that's for sure.
I also noticed that I could break with less effort than before, due to the relaxed "heavy hand" that you learn doing IP.
Do you need IP to break?
No.
Does it help?
Yes.
Does being able to break thing make any difference in fighting ability?
No.
Is it fun and cool?
Yes, it can be a great confidence builder for some.

[Shima Wara]

Bawang's logic is so obviously convoluted its not even funny. Let's apply to other conditioning methods and see if it holds up.

Let's say we put on a weightlifting seminar. My claim was that I could teach anyone over 125 lbs to deadlift 185lbs with good technique. After that, they would have to train themselves and continue lifting and conditioning to make increases. Then let's say, that I deadlift 405 at the seminar during the demonstration. People come up, they see me lift it, they try to lift it and can't. However, by the end of the seminar everyone can deadlift 185 as promised after correcting their technique. According to Bawang, because they can lift the 185 that I warm up with, that I am either a fake, or doing trick lifts that are easy.

This logic is so off the wall that I can't believe anyone would buy it.

Breaking one slab HAS NEVER BEEN A GOOD TEST OF IRON PALM. We actually state publicly that a stack of 3 is the first test to show real progress in hand conditioning. One slab is ok, but it acts as a solid 2" unit. Breaking a solid 2" unit of concrete, does not mean you can easily break a solid 8" unit of concrete. You cannot equate one block to four blocks(unspaced).

If you are so eager to prove us wrong, then host us at your school or come to one of our seminars and show us we are wrong by breaking what we break. We will even show you the technique we use to break and hold nothing back.

And frankly, if you say "Having a conditioned hand does not matter in combat" then you are a simpleton who needs more training.

[SimonM]

Breaking one slab was posited as a good demonstration that IP abilities were taught by the OP.

Look guys, I fall into the extremely small camp of TCMA guys who see the most important tradition of TCMA being that of testing and evolving techniques. If you actually analyze the history of TCMA it's a pretty important one right up until about 1950.

As such I don't automatically dismiss TCMA nor do I give a free pass to TCMA silliness. It is simply a part of the art we should do away with - it has been outlived.

IP tricks fall into that category. I know I can hit hard but I don't do breaks - never bothered learning how - I was too busy learning how to knock somebody over with a well placed punch.

[bawang]

Breaking one slab HAS NEVER BEEN A GOOD TEST OF IRON PALM.

-if you dont trick break, breaking even one slab is a great test of iron palm.
- you guys trick break.

If you are so eager to prove us wrong, then host us at your school or come to one of our seminars

FUK NO
-you guys train shotokan karate, and got your medicinal formula from books, seminars and internet, such as fraud james patrick lacey.

-you are selling books and hosting seminars, with information you got from books and seminars

And frankly, if you say "Having a conditioned hand does not matter in combat" then you are a simpleton who needs more training.

i never said iron palm isnt real. i said you are a fraud

[Shima Wara]

bawang, you're an idiot.

You say I'm a fraud and do trick breaks, but you say it in ignorance because you have never seen me break nor met me in real life.

I would do myself absolutely no favors by faking anything. If I was, then that would be apparent when I taught others who did not know me. They would easily see the fraud and report that back to others.

The claim that breaking one slab is a great test of iron palm is straight from the mouth of foolishness. Its obvious that you know nothing on this issue. We can break single blocks from just inches away. The bigger the stack, the harder the break. This is obvious.

Again, I invite you to prove that we "trick break". Actual proof, not hearsay, conjecture, and erroneous conclusions based on your internet "research".
If you actually want to prove it, then gird up your tiny balls and meet us in person. Then you can honestly judge for yourself. Unlike you we do not hide.

FYI, I've never done shotokan, neither have any of us.

We got the information directly from the source. We are Ng family boxing students and we got our formulas from renowned herbalists. You obviously know nothing about this, or you would know that the Iron Palm community has NEVER produced a book of serious formulas and has never been eager to share formulas except with legitimate practitioners. We have never attended an Iron Palm seminar, ever. We were taught by a teacher, and learned from herbalists and masters.

Simon,

If you have ever actually punched someone in the face, you would know the damage it does to the knuckles and fingers of the hand. Hand conditioning is still relevant. Ask any bareknuckle boxer. They still condition and apply liniment, and have for a long time. You are completely incorrect. Additionally, why do you assume we only practice iron palm. My base is in SAMBO. I just happen to condition my hand as well. I can fight, but i prefer to do so with a hand that is less likely to get damaged in the process.

That being said. I'm done here. Arguing with fools and cowards is counterproductive. If you really want to prove us wrong that badly, then come see us or host us. Otherwise, get over it, we will still be here regardless.

[faxiapreta]

We got the information directly from the source. We are Ng family boxing students and we got our formulas from renowned herbalists. .

The difference between the snake oil you are pedaling and a weight lifting seminar is that the weight seminar doesn't try to convince people that they need a bunch of huey herbs and liniments to continue to improve after the seminar is over.

[faxiapreta]

You are completely incorrect. Additionally, why do you assume we only practice iron palm. My base is in SAMBO.

If your SAMBO experience is the same as your "years of wrestling" experience, that would be a big fat zero.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You know...you guys tend to really push it....
Guys, it's not the hard to have a civil discussion.
You voice your concerns and POV and someone else chimes in with their view and opinion.
No one is forced to believe ANYONE else, ok?
Don't start calling people frauds or that they are "peddelling snake oil", even more if you, personally, have not tried it.
Seriously now.
This is bordering on harassment and cross thread stalking and that is not acceptable.

[Shima Wara]

If your SAMBO experience is the same as your "years of wrestling" experience, that would be a big fat zero.

HAHA! I love this idiot. When I said dip their head(a common term used to describe sinking your height in wrestling, anyone who has wrestled seriously would know that "dipping" means "dropping height") I was talking about being at waist level or lower for a takedown. It does not matter if their head is up or down. I am well aware that one should keep their head up for attempting a takedown. Again, another comment taken way out of context by the inexperienced and blown into 35 differing assumptions unrelated to the original comment itself.

Hilarious.

[faxiapreta]

HAHA! I love this idiot. When I said dip their head(a common term used to describe sinking your height in wrestling, anyone who has wrestled seriously would know that "dipping" means "dropping height") I was talking about being at waist level or lower for a takedown. It does not matter if their head is up or down. I am well aware that one should keep their head up for attempting a takedown. Again, another comment taken way out of context by the inexperienced and blown into 35 differing assumptions unrelated to the original comment itself.

A person with wrestling would not talk about dipping the head. Not only is it not common, it's pretty much unheard of.

And, yes, it does matter if the head is up or down.

BTW, there is a very commonly used reference to what wrestlers do when they "drop height". This term is taught in pretty much any basic level high school wrestling program from the very beginning. It is one of the basics to the majority of takedowns done in freestyle and folkstyle wrestling.

Pretty much any wrestler who was talking about what your are supposedly talking about would have used that common term already. Not using that reference, but instead calling it "dropping height" or "dipping the head" would be further evidence for someone's lack of wrestling experience.

The term is called "changing levels" and it used by pretty much any wrestler with 6 months or so of wrestling experience.

[David Jamieson]

A good point was raised about the condition of the hands.

A person who is not using teh method of Iron Palm generally has a pretty crappy looking hand and some messed up knuckles. He'll also suffer bad when he gets old.

An IP person on teh other hand (pun intended) has smooth hands, like an office worker. Only, he can break more than an average person, as much as any proficient breaker and he won't suffer the gnarled up stumps for hands crap that non iron palm breakers suffer from.

IP is to harden the hands for use with teh hand forms as learned in Kung Fu.
IP is not a style, is not a fighting method and contains nothing in the way of pugilistic instructions.

A person can practice iron palm without ever fighting, in fact, anyone can take up martial arts as a hobby and never fight. It's all good. Everyone is allowed to find themselves physically.

Pay no attention to whining ultra-orthodox blinder vision wads who want to make like the world is two sided black and white copies for ever and ever. lol

Those guys will take forever to get anywhere with anything. The aren't worth you time.

[David Jamieson]

A person with wrestling would not talk about dipping the head. Not only is it not common, it's pretty much unheard of.

And, yes, it does matter if the head is up or down.

BTW, there is a very commonly used reference to what wrestlers do when they "drop height". This term is taught in pretty much any basic level high school wrestling program from the very beginning. It is one of the basics to the majority of takedowns done in freestyle and folkstyle wrestling.

Pretty much any wrestler who was talking about what your are supposedly talking about would have used that common term already. Not using that reference, but instead calling it "dropping height" or "dipping the head" would be further evidence for someone's lack of wrestling experience.

The term is called "changing levels" and it used by pretty much any wrestler with 6 months or so of wrestling experience.

I think it's possible you are fixating on something and not looking at what is being said? Wrestlers for the most part use completely different energies than strikers.
Wrestlers don't really know what to do when they are repeatedly punched in the face whilst being sat upon.

an mma guy might, but that's because he knows more than wrestling.

all different energies and it takes time to leran any of them.

now, as a guy who doesn't know any kung fu, why do you insist on speaking to it? If you know something about wrestling, you should stick to commentaries on that and leave the Kung Fu to those who actually do it and realize that the world doesn't live inside your tv or your limited world view.