8-step mantis yesterday and today

[MonkSanTe]

More like you saying that you're a teacher of kung fu, or that you know the eight step system, or that you tell the truth about anything. You know, something like that.

[The Power]

I cant beleave what im hearing on this.... ED I know for a fact Sifu Lisjak was given photos and a video of Master Wei By Grandmaster Lin Chun Fu. So, Please think and get your facts stright before you post them. I was in you area this past weekend and found your school but it looked closed. I wanted to stop by and introduce myself. Maybe next time. Please Mike stop the Bashing. The fact is James Shyun cant prove who he is or what he is any more than I can. He has no photos or any written information from Master Wei stateing he is who he claims he is. I asked him! He said it burnt up in a fire? So I dont know. I do know what Grandmaster Lin has showed me. So lets all stop the fighting and say everybody is good in there own style!

[The Power]

Also ED If Sifu George is such a bad guy then why is his PIC up at http://www.8step.com/news/news28.html ? It says he is the NY rep and EDU. Director. But I dont see your pic. So lets all stop the bashing now shall we?

[Stacey]

3 words for y'all.....get.....a.....life.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Come on guys you know as well as everyone else that it is your "group" or should I say school that everyone not even including myself has a problem with. I have heard almost 40 people in the federation complain about you guys , even when I used to be freinds with george listjak, but when he started spreading rumors and saying derogatory things about peoples wives (mine included) and families thats when he went to far! I started to think that maybe they were'nt making it up.
I started to believe all the things that were said about him even though I first I thought it wasnt true. George claims to be a born again christian but our conversation on the phone proved that HE IS NOT. So if a person is going to lie about their religion what else whould they lie about? again I used to be freinds with george but after some oif things he has said about me my wife and my students I have absolutly no respect for him whatsoever. So please before you speak only of which you know half of get the whole story and lets not use photos from an amusment park to back up your thoughts.

I realize that he is your teacher and you have to stick up for him , but ask him how he also screwed his top student and head instructor mike......... thats a story in itself, and it is not just me but many many people in 8 step that feel this way.. which was 1 of the reasons he was kicked out , so agin it is not only me who thinks so little of his actions but everybody in the fed.

PS monk sante wow thats a pretty low blow attempt to speak of someones grammer, I found that funny, whats the matter I make you so mad that 's all you can muste up to rebut with? I would match wits with you but obviously you are unarmed......

[MonkSanTe]

This will be my last comment on the subject. My point, more or less, is that everytime my school or my sifu is brought up on here, you feel the need to say something derogatory about it. I really don't care about your delusions of who is against our school, or whatever. Come down to the school and tell Sifu Lisjak what you have to say or don't say it.


PS-I'll admit, insulting your grammatical skills was done in poor taste. That is why this will be my last comment on this thread, we both sound like a couple of kids out on a playground, only less mature!

[EARTH DRAGON]

Agreed,
As far as george goes, the last time I called him at his office and yelled at him to stop spreading rumors about me and my wife we argued for a half an hour and then he told me to go to hell that when I told him I was on my way to his office and we can handle this face to face he warned my not to come and threatened to call the police. I know he has a patient that is a hamburg cop so I really dont want to get arrested over this, but that is his way of dealing with me for he can dish it out but he cant take it. Deep down inside I am a fighter and have been in many fights street and otherwise and although george is bigger he is not a fighter and he and I both know that. so calling the police was his way out......
Again, you guys go your way and eveyone else will go the other and alll will be happy......

[EARTH DRAGON]

I just got off the phone with sifu dean, georges only real prayingmantis teacher by the way and he told me to look at georges website and was laughing at georges claims
Now correct me if I am wrong but george kicked and screamed about master shyun embelishing his dicipleship but yet george has stated on his site that he is the diciple of 4 or 5 different prayingmantis teachers some of who dont even know him or have only taught him within the past year or so , so correct me if I am wrong but talk about hippocritical MY GOD what will he calim next that he studied with master wei?
I know that it takes a very long time to become a diciple and then if and when you are you can only be that to one teacher, but I guess in georges case its anyone who will give him the time of day. so while you guys are thinking up your next lie please explian this to me and everyone else on the board................ I gotta hear this excuse

[Stacey]

Sifu Haley....What do you do when someone pushes against your right shoulder? Do you push back for all your worth or let it slide by you like water off a duck's back. When two forces collide, the one that knows the feminine will be superior. He attacks your ego, you attack his. Neither your ego, nor his are real, your wasting energy shooting at apparitions and kicking furiosly trying to harm the wind.

For God's sake, stop trying to "win". Winning and losing are the two great lies of the universe. When you meditate and all else slips away, even yourself, that is reality, try incorporationg that into daily life. Watch "Office Space"

Shouting over the phone? Why? For your wife? Is she yours really? Can you love without owning. She wasn't in danger, and either are you. Count your blessings.

[The Power]

To all who listen to this guy, Here is a E-mail that was forwarded to me by a concerned potential student.

Dear Tom,

Thank you for your interest in Eight Step Preying Mantis and Shyun Tai
Chi. Mr. Haley is not presently affiliated with the American - Chinese
Martial Arts Federation and is therefor, under US Trademark laws, not
authorized to use the Eight Step Preying Mantis or Shyun Tai Chi names.
As for Mr. Haleys credentials, he was granted a provisional status of
sifu under the ACMAF approximately six years ago. He has had no contact
with the grandmaster in several years. His provisional status is
presently under review by the federation for failure to complete the
federation's authorized sifu training program.

All of the individual sifus listed on the ACMAF's official website have
obtained a level of expertise, recognized by the federation, allowing
them to train students to the level of sifu. Mr. Haley does not possess
the full scope of information necessary to instruct students to the
point where they might themselves qualify for national testing and
subsequent recognition by the federation as a sifu in Eight Step Preying
Mantis and Shyun Tai Chi Chuan.

Any claims by Mr. Haley that he is in possession of information
undisclosed to other ranking sifus of the federation should be taken
with the greatest speculation. Regarding the notion that he is the most
knowledgable individual to study under the grandmaster; I submit to you,
with sincerest humility, that presently I am the highest ranking student
under Grandmaster James Sun. My kung fu brothers listed on 8step.com,
each and everyone, possess skill and understanding far in excess of Mr.
Haley's, with respect to Eight Step Preying Mantis Kung Fu and Shyun
Style Tai Chi.

Understand that I am not in the habit of undermining the credentials of
others, in particular those of my kung fu brothers. I therefor gravely
regret the necessity of this particular contact. Yet, this is not the
first instance of false claims made by Mr. Haley and, hence, the
precipitant for this response.

In closing, I recommend that you contact Sifu Michael Cimino, there in
Buffalo, New York. He will be able to instruct you. He is fully
qualified under federation guidelines and personally authorized by
Grandmaster James Sun.

Sincerely,
Master Kevin Loftus, US Representative ACMAF

[EARTH DRAGON]

I just want to thank you for your kind and very wise words. In this situation I find myself acting totally out of character as I am sure you know by now, however you have to realize that while geogre listjak used to be in our federation and my kung fu brother he has discraced us and our teacher. If it were someone of whom I did not know I wouldnt even get a tad bit excited over however, this has gone way beyond the internet and effects me in a personal way. He even went as far as to call my wife names and speak vulgar about her to a third party who doesnt even do kung fu actually someone she works with. Thats when I lost it and threatened to handle it the old school way but he tried to call the police on me! cant you see who fustrating this is? While I have turned the other cheek so many times on this matter someone or something always gets under my skin. It is almost impossible to let it go and forget about it. It go tto the point where he was kicked out of the federation and sued in court lost and still asks for trouble.
Not many things get me mad in life but a coward, cheater, lier and hipocrite cannot go unscathed. I do appreciate your compassion and thank you for your advice and if it comes down to itr I want you in my cornner fo rthe big fight LOL but havent you ever met someone you just simply cannot stand.....

[The Power]

It go tto the point where he was kicked out of the federation and sued in court lost and still asks for trouble.
Not many things get me mad in life but a coward, cheater, lier and hipocrite cannot go unscathed. You are a coward, cheater,lier and hipocrite. For your and everyone elses information the Prayingmantiskungfu site is down and has been down for awhile. So you and dean where just on it??? The e-mail above proves to everyone who and what you are... A FAKE!!!! There was never a court case over the copyright so get your information right LIER!!!

[Syre]

MOVING RIGHT ALONG...

The reason I started this thread was to attempt to have some discussion about whether:

- 8-step forms have changed in the last 60 years or so, and if so, how and what comments people have about them.

- whether 8-step is taught in different variations by different masters. I understand there are some other masters besides Master Shyun who were fully qualified as Sifus before Master Shyun (since he was the final student, apparently, of the previous inheritor of the lineage), so I have wondered if they teach, and if so whether what they teach varies from the Shyun-style 8-step, as taught today.

Is there ANY CHANCE of bringing this discussion back to those original points?

[EARTH DRAGON]

You leave me no choice. give me a break, how long did it take you to think up that one? I called kevin and he had absolutly no idea what I was talking about when I read him what you wrote. I thgink its a pretty low blow to make up false accusations and pin someone elses name on it. I think you have reached a new level of desperation. If you are defending george please by all means ask him why he was forced to change the name of his school , website and advertisement of the style in which he teaches. coincidence perhaps? I really dont think you guys can up with anymore ridiculous lame excuses to justify your own self pitty but then again your group never ceases to amaze me? let me guess george trained with master wei and was a diciple of fung hua yi..........LOL

[Kiasyd]

Syre,

I think that your question was very interesting, but maybe it's better to forget about it... Everytime a question concerning 8 step Mantis is raised here, the discussion always degenerates...

-- Kiasyd