There is no such thing as authentic Wing Chun

[LoneTiger108]

Well, I see Wing Chun as a bit of a Pandoras Box

If you have the correct key you can open and look inside, and then you may just get blown away with what you discover. It will change your life forever.

If you do not have the key you have to force the box open then there is no mystery but the simple construction of a box.

Some people will know exactly what I'm saying here (I hope)

To go on a lifelong journey to be told at the very end that the box you're searching for doesn't actually exist must be quite soul destroying, and unfortunately due to the nature of Chinese Martial Arts and how they have been transmitted to westerners in particular we are all in for a big disappointment! Didn't 'Kung Fu Panda' teach you anything??!!

At least if we can agree there is no one 'authentic' system or recipe held by any of the teachers presently out there or hidden today we can get on with our journey in acceptance of what we have. Authentic teachers, yes, but no one authentic system.

And what we actually have in Wing Chun/Ving Tsun/Wing Tsun/Wing Tjun/Weng Chun/Yong Chun/Eng Chun/Vinh Xuan is a genuine Chinese Treasure

[LoneTiger108]

Sifu Sergios Latest clip shows a few things I can guarantee will just be alien to most western Wing Chun schools

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0dZjWVORA8

[anerlich]

I can guarantee will just be alien to most western Wing Chun schools

Just as well you didn't say "money-back guarantee". Some interesting stuff there, some weird as well, but hardly arcane or mind-blowing. I though Alex/duende's HFY demo he gave me was more profound than much of that.

Some people will know exactly what I'm saying here (I hope)

Pandora's box was a poor analogy to what it sounded like you were trying to say.

[KC Elbows]

I begin to question any argument that suggests that the problem that you see in the West regarding kung fu is not just as prevalent in China. The problem is that most of the people going to China to train are largely inexperienced when they go. If you go when you have experience, you'll see that it's the exact same. You'll turn away teachers.

If you've gone to China and not had to turn away teachers because they really don't know more than you, you are not an experienced martial artist.

If you've gone to China, and good people haven't shown respect to your knowledge, you are not an experienced martial artist.

Just my opinion.

[Hendrik]

Well, I see Wing Chun as a bit of a Pandoras Box

If you have the correct key you can open and look inside, and then you may just get blown away with what you discover. It will change your life forever.

If you do not have the key you have to force the box open then there is no mystery but the simple construction of a box.

Some people will know exactly what I'm saying here (I hope)

To go on a lifelong journey to be told at the very end that the box you're searching for doesn't actually exist must be quite soul destroying, and unfortunately due to the nature of Chinese Martial Arts and how they have been transmitted to westerners in particular we are all in for a big disappointment! Didn't 'Kung Fu Panda' teach you anything??!!

At least if we can agree there is no one 'authentic' system or recipe held by any of the teachers presently out there or hidden today we can get on with our journey in acceptance of what we have. Authentic teachers, yes, but no one authentic system.

And what we actually have in Wing Chun/Ving Tsun/Wing Tsun/Wing Tjun/Weng Chun/Yong Chun/Eng Chun/Vinh Xuan is a genuine Chinese Treasure

True. and Sergio did a good job presenting the big picture.

[anerlich]

I begin to question any argument that suggests that the problem that you see in the West regarding kung fu is not just as prevalent in China. The problem is that most of the people going to China to train are largely inexperienced when they go. If you go when you have experience, you'll see that it's the exact same. You'll turn away teachers.

If you've gone to China and not had to turn away teachers because they really don't know more than you, you are not an experienced martial artist.

If you've gone to China, and good people haven't shown respect to your knowledge, you are not an experienced martial artist.

I agree.

I went to HK, China and Taiwan in the early 1980s with one of the first Taiwan and HK accredited gwailo acupuncturists who was also a Taiji, Xingyi and Bagua instructor. I met Sun Lu-Tang's grandson and a few other practitioners of considerable repute. I really was looking for the sacred and profund, things I hadn't seen before, if it was there I was open to it.

While I was more into Xingyi and Bagua than Taiji at the time, I had a go at push hands with some students of a Taiwanese taiji master. With some minor advice from my own instructor, I found I could hold my own with nearly all the students, and they weren't taking it easy on me. The master was definitely much better than me, but hardly Yang Cheng-fu (or more accurately, what the legends about Yang Cheng-fu portray).

My current instructor and one of his classmates won their divisions in a KF tournament in HK in 1982 which included practitioners from all over Asia and Australia, America and Britain and was billed as a "World Championship".

I came away with the impression that there was nothing over there that I couldn't find back home, even back then. Also that the decades of the Cultural Revolution had ground down the standard of Kung Fu in China to an enormous extent. I regard the notion that it was bubbling along under the surface there all the time and all these hidden masters are now revealing their ubersecret stuff to the West with a great deal of scepticism. KF could only flourish outside the PRC during those decades IMO.

The only thing I saw that lasted with me was a middle-aged woman working out with Bagua hooked swords one early cold morning in People's Park, Shanghai. She was magnificent.

I literally spent decades paralleling Ouspensky's "Search for the Miraculous" in TCMA. My verdict? Not there, a fool's errand. The best practitioners, here and in the East, are practical, tough minded people for whom fighting skill is paramount. Sweat and pain are the only secrets.

The "spiritual" airheads in pyjamas preaching bunkum don't have their skills. I have to laugh at those kids on this forum telling me I haven't looked for authentic practitioners or refuse to look deep enough into TCMA.

The "Old China" some westerners, including some KFOWC forum members, seek, and even reside in, exists only in their fetid and uninformed imaginations.

[TenTigers]

as a great man once said, "I reject your reality and replace it with my own." jamie hineman (sp?)

yu sure it wasn't Salvador Dali?

[Hardwork108]

I literally spent decades paralleling Ouspensky's "Search for the Miraculous" in TCMA. My verdict? Not there, a fool's errand. The best practitioners, here and in the East, are practical, tough minded people for whom fighting skill is paramount. Sweat and pain are the only secrets.

You can "search" all you want, but if no one shows it to you, then you are in square one, so to speak. You can't just got to China and expect sifus to share all of their knowledge with you. Most of them don't even share their knowledge with their Chinese students....

[anerlich]

You can "search" all you want, but if no one shows it to you, then you are in square one, so to speak. You can't just got to China and expect sifus to share all of their knowledge with you. Most of them don't even share their knowledge with their Chinese students....

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

The problem was these guys had nothing to show. Like yourself, I suspect.

[Hardwork108]

They had nothing to show, nothing to tell. Like you.

Not to the likes of you, we don't.

[Hendrik]

I have a same type of experience for decades until I found some one who lead me into a different path.

Then, I understand why it is call Internal ; instead of it help me to fight. It give me the chance to understand how it works to transform body and mind.

Usually, most general cant get in because the two doors are extremely difficult to get in without persistance and correct instruction. that two doors are: loosing up the body and quit the mind.

Take an example of SLT/SNT ,how many in this world currently is practicing SLT/SNT? a millions may be? and how many within this millions of WCK practioner be able to enter the door? I would say may be 0.01% or less.


So, what is Loosing up the body?

in today's word, it can be precisely describe as a feeling of lower the density of every part of the body until it is as low as the air or feel like levitate in the air.

So, What is silence the mind means?

in today's word, it can be precisely describe as lowering the frequency of the thoughts to one thought and also lowering the intensity of the thoughts to extremely low. The ultimate goal is zero thought with zero thought intensity but awareness.



So, once the body feel like levitate or air low density or as it called the weight of One feather is excessive ; and the frequency and intensity of the thoughts going down toward one. Qi phenomenon must surface, that is a guarentee surface. and breathing naturally goes down to under 4 reps per minute. There, SLT/SNT is practice naturally without disturbing the above two prerequisite. Only then FLOW is possible. This is where the six directional force vectors balance itself naturally and the 20 channel of medirians flow in ease.


Take a look today, how many has attainted the kung fu to enter the two doors? With the way 99.99% of people practice the Sam bai fut / fok sau-wu sau section. we know 99.99% of these people is outside the two door above.


There is no magic but there are gate and gates one needs to enter in the process. if the body mind is not transform, then it default down to those who has better health, younger, faster, stronger will win.




While there is no such thing as ONE authentic WCK. there is such thing as ONE authentic entering into to the realm of internal via the two doors.


For health or for martial purpose, one needs to enter these doors to make it effective. that is the ONE authentic of TCMA. That is my experience and how magic started....


If you has enter to this basic level, please acknowledge. if you have not do not doubt, it is real and attainable for everyone.

Remember: Loose means lower the density of the physical. Silence means lower the frequency and intensity of your thoughts. experiment for yourself and see for yourself there is a world different then the usual physical one we know. The above are the description of the beginning of that state and that is where one's kung fu bring one. Mind, thinking, understanding, brute force will not get you there. only kung fu from the proper cultivation is the ticket to enter.

I agree.

I went to HK, China and Taiwan in the early 1980s with one of the first Taiwan and HK accredited gwailo acupuncturists who was also a Taiji, Xingyi and Bagua instructor. I met Sun Lu-Tang's grandson and a few other practitioners of considerable repute. I really was looking for the sacred and profund, things I hadn't seen before, if it was there I was open to it.

While I was more into Xingyi and Bagua than Taiji at the time, I had a go at push hands with some students of a Taiwanese taiji master. With some minor advice from my own instructor, I found I could hold my own with nearly all the students, and they weren't taking it easy on me. The master was definitely much better than me, but hardly Yang Cheng-fu (or more accurately, what the legends about Yang Cheng-fu portray).

My current instructor and one of his classmates won their divisions in a KF tournament in HK in 1982 which included practitioners from all over Asia and Australia, America and Britain and was billed as a "World Championship".

I came away with the impression that there was nothing over there that I couldn't find back home, even back then. Also that the decades of the Cultural Revolution had ground down the standard of Kung Fu in China to an enormous extent. I regard the notion that it was bubbling along under the surface there all the time and all these hidden masters are now revealing their ubersecret stuff to the West with a great deal of scepticism. KF could only flourish outside the PRC during those decades IMO.

The only thing I saw that lasted with me was a middle-aged woman working out with Bagua hooked swords one early cold morning in People's Park, Shanghai. She was magnificent.

I literally spent decades paralleling Ouspensky's "Search for the Miraculous" in TCMA. My verdict? Not there, a fool's errand. The best practitioners, here and in the East, are practical, tough minded people for whom fighting skill is paramount. Sweat and pain are the only secrets.

The "spiritual" airheads in pyjamas preaching bunkum don't have their skills. I have to laugh at those kids on this forum telling me I haven't looked for authentic practitioners or refuse to look deep enough into TCMA.

The "Old China" some westerners, including some KFOWC forum members, seek, and even reside in, exists only in their fetid and uninformed imaginations.

[anerlich]

I have a same type of experience for decades until I found some one who lead me into a different path.

I walked that path for some time, perhaps further than you. Sorry, but it goes goes nowhere other than into false pride and self deception.

[Hendrik]

I walked that path for some time, perhaps further than you. Sorry, but it goes goes nowhere other than into false pride and self deception.

I sure 1000% agree with you if I was not coach into a different realm and the ancient writing becomes alive...

Sure, most people are into false pride and self deception to safe face. But there are those who have the real thing to bring back their health in the survival situation call sick.

[anerlich]

I sure 1000% agree with you

I'm not seeking validation or agreement for my experience, thanks all the same.

[theo]

I sure 1000% agree with you if I was not coach into a different realm and the ancient writing becomes alive...

Sure, most people are into false pride and self deception to safe face. But there are those who have the real thing to bring back their health in the survival situation call sick.

letting Go and telling my mind to shut up was harder than i thought. something about needing/wanting to understand, make sense of things...mind tries to put things together by itself, maybe its the habit of trying to control. letting go isn't easy because we might fear doing so won't get us anywhere, it's hard to trust if we are not analyzing and thinking, things will just happen. we always want to know if we're doing something right or if it should be so and so. even when we think we're not, sometimes we still are. it's a gradual process...