how would you fight this guy?

[Hendrik]

I agree with the idea of attacking thee weapon, hurting the opponents arms or legs, but I am not so sure that attacking the limbs and then going to the center would be "pure" WC as most WC would seem to evade or avoid the attack and then attack the body/centerline. --------

IMO,

1, Damage the weapon and then attack to the center line, and damage the weapon in the same time attack to the center line is perfectly WCK.

Attacking to center line as general public way is a religion which is not practical when dealing with weapon and the two head snake type of art such as CLF.

Most evade are just loosing more ground and often run into set up.
One needs to deal with the attack on spot.

for. The two head snake art, the seeing center is an illusion, only if one head is damage the center force to be surfaced..

2, no matter what one does it is all about dealing with momentum in high speed. Clf's snow balling and round momentum cannot be dissolved by general forward pressure training of WCK. No matter how good one can play the lok sau type of chi sau game, that platform doesn't train to absorb the type of circular momentum.

Similar to CLF type of momentum is kyokushin's chain low round kicks.



Just some thoughts among infinity thoughts

[hskwarrior]

CLF is an excellent system no doubt, as is WC, imo. However, the skill of the practicianer and their understanding is what sets them apart from those who just mimic the movements.

THAT is the truth!

[Hendrik]

There are only three ways to deal with any attack:
Avoid the attack
Evade the attack
Intercept the attack. ----------


There are more ways:
dissolve, make use of, or destroy the attack. But needs advance training.


To dissolve needs huajin capability. Similar to water dam to dilute it
To make use of needs Sen hua capability. Similar transfer the momentum to do desire things
To destroy needs short distance fajin capability similar to patriot missile

[Sihing73]

There are only three ways to deal with any attack:
Avoid the attack
Evade the attack
Intercept the attack. ----------


There are more ways:
dissolve, make use of, or destroy the attack. But needs advance training.


To dissolve needs huajin capability. Similar to water dam to dilute it
To make use of needs Sen hua capability. Similar transfer the momentum to do desire things
To destroy needs short distance fajin capability similar to patriot missile

Hendrick,

We can discuss on another thread rather than hijack this one. However I stand by what I said, each of the ways you mention is simply a variation of one of the three I mentioned. If you believe that not to be the case then please explain, in detail, what makes them different.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1084067]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un8sB...eature=related[/QUOTE-------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surprised that you ask. Another- what if...problem.He is just demonstrating CLF striking against a compliant student!!
Of course CLF is a good style. And the demonstrator is good.

But a good wing chun person plays his own game- don't just stand there -fast forward-attack-
straight.
A bad wing chun person would/could lose.

joy chaudhuri

[Liddel]

Be careful, some of those CLF round strikes would collapse or destroy a lot of WC structures.

I dont doubt thats a possibility.

I cant comment on your individual training as i don't know you, but through sparring i have a good idea of what can and can't collapse my Guard.

[Hardwork108]

I dont doubt thats a possibility.

I cant comment on your individual training as i don't know you, but through sparring i have a good idea of what can and can't collapse my Guard.

Point taken. I hope that you have sparred against good CLF guys, so as to get an idea as to how your structure would hold out against their powerful attacks.

[hskwarrior]

CLF and WC both has its good and bad points. Both can be: aggressive, destructive,vicious, defensive and offensive. Both know how to work the angles.
Has WC beaten CLF in the past? of course. Has CLF beaten WC in the past? of course. its not the style, its about the person using the style.

Originally posted by: goju
raise my forearm to protect my head from the hay makers then counter off if like this http://www.fightreport.net/wp-conten...rlie-silva.gif

LOL, that's not how CLF uses its big swinging strike called the sow choy. One thing CLF LOVES is when our opponent raises his arm to block the Sow Choy. For us, we unlike what you see in the UFC or MMA, we don't just throw ONE over hand strike. If we do that, we know what you are going to do and already have a plan for that.

Why does CLF love it when you raise your arm to block that strike? its a couple of reasons. one....once we see you raise your arm our objective can instantly change from intending to wipe your face off with the sow choy. Two, we tend to follow through with our strikes. so if you raised your arm we would then change our objective to strike your arm instead. It will pull you off balance as it completes its path. By this time, CLF has already delivered a couple of strikes with our other hand or even feet. so, what am i saying? just be careful bro.

[Hendrik]

CLF and WC both has its good and bad points. Both can be: aggressive, destructive,vicious, defensive and offensive. Both know how to work the angles.
Has WC beaten CLF in the past? of course. Has CLF beaten WC in the past? of course. its not the style, its about the person using the style.



LOL, that's not how CLF uses its big swinging strike called the sow choy. One thing CLF LOVES is when our opponent raises his arm to block the Sow Choy. For us, we unlike what you see in the UFC or MMA, we don't just throw ONE over hand strike. If we do that, we know what you are going to do and already have a plan for that.

Why does CLF love it when you raise your arm to block that strike? its a couple of reasons. one....once we see you raise your arm our objective can instantly change from intending to wipe your face off with the sow choy. Two, we tend to follow through with our strikes. so if you raised your arm we would then change our objective to strike your arm instead. It will pull you off balance as it completes its path. By this time, CLF has already delivered a couple of strikes with our other hand or even feet. so, what am i saying? just be careful bro.

Hahaha Frank, the above is a good one.


As I mention in other thread. if the Door is not opened. blocking and or enter to the center just doesnt make much contribution and could do the worse similar to the following clip by Gary, " you do Tan Da.... luckily he is my student..."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u63OJ...eature=related


IMHO, it is naive to think, oh I just tan da and rapid fire to the center line.

CLF is like a snake with two heads and the center of the snake is illusive. Thinking blocking the snake head and directly go to the center is just impractical and suicide.


So, if the way how one deal with the attack doesnt open up the door that action is just a defensive and not that useful action. IMHO. One simply needs to have atleast 2, 3 steps line up instead of just thinking those Lap Da, Tan Da, and chain punch can do the job.

Another thing is who says WCK goes direct to the center line all the time? Nope, Gary doesnt do that when he open the door with let his opponent past. So, it is suicide to rush into center line taking that as dogma.

Chassing center line blindly is also means Chasing arm.


Just some thoughts.

[hskwarrior]

Open and closed doors are one of the focuses i've learned from my sifu. He always taught me that whenever you strike the head you leave a few doors open. He'd then test me on how i would close the door when it needed to be closed. i learned the hard way haha. but, now i teach my students that whenever they strike to be aware of all the open doors. one of the ways my sifu helped us to develop this is a DRILL called "Flowing". here is a clip of my beginner students learning to flow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynUs_95mdvQ

These guys have only been training with me for about 7 months now.

[Hendrik]

Open and closed doors are one of the focuses i've learned from my sifu. He always taught me that whenever you strike the head you leave a few doors open. He'd then test me on how i would close the door when it needed to be closed. i learned the hard way haha. but, now i teach my students that whenever they strike to be aware of all the open doors. one of the ways my sifu helped us to develop this is a DRILL called "Flowing". here is a clip of my beginner students learning to flow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynUs_95mdvQ


These guys have only been training with me for about 7 months now.

Frank,

Thanks for sharing. Now we speak real deal.



For Cho Family WCK, the flow/open /close door is taugh in the following two men set called Chi Sau Loong. small sample start around 0.4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqHE5A4LC80

The set is almost extinct today .... So, imho, those open/close door/ flow stuffs exist long time ago instead of just the Tan da, lap da...... but it extinc because it is more difficult to grasp i think.


For WCner, in general,
The problem we face today is we strike and we dont know if we strike at open door. and we dont know our open door and close door. we think if we do that chain punch to the center line and that tan sau everything is solve. but then that is not the case. so in the real life we cant applied the art because we just dont know but go brute force.


again, just some thoughts.

[hskwarrior]

Here are some more footage of choy lay fat fight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJVBn...feature=fvwrel

I made that video hahahaha. but there are some CLF guys in chuck lidells camp.

so in the real life we cant applied the art because we just dont know but go brute force.

Going brute force without a plan is tunnel vision. you lose focus for everything around you except what's right in front of you. in most cases you can't see clearly or think when you go brute force blindly.

brute force is good for finishing moves. not the fight.

[Vajramusti]

For WCner, in general,
The problem we face today is we strike and we dont know if we strike at open door. and we dont know our open door and close door. we think if we do that chain punch to the center line and that tan sau everything is solve. but then that is not the case. so in the real life we cant applied the art because we just dont know but go brute force.


again, just some thoughts.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above critique is quite general. There are Ip Man lineage folks who know about open and closed doors,
angles and lines and open and close and go in without brute force... and dealing with two headed snakes.There are competent and incompetent folks in most TCMAS.

joy chaudhuri

[Eric_H]

Yo Hendrik!

Didn't you just leave/retire/have your last post ever on this forum a few weeks ago?

[Hendrik]

Yo Hendrik!

Didn't you just leave/retire/have your last post ever on this forum a few weeks ago?

my mind is ever changing and upgrading and improving. It never stop at the past be it yesterday. and I think every one is the same... always improving.

one never fight the same fighter twice for the figther yesterday is not the same fighter today. isnt that true?