Honest HFY Question-

[Ultimatewingchun]

It would seem that, contrary to how you described what you thought I meant, JP...the 45 degree angles go in the direction such that the elbows are closer to the center of the body when in ready position - and not in reference to the 'X' positions used in the opening of SLT.

So I see no difference between the two systems in this regard. I've seen photos of the HFY ready position (ie.- jong sao when in the neutral side body stance, for example). The arms/hands are in a 45 degree position - the same as TWC.

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Other simple questions:

As to the movement at the beginning of SLT - I see the upside down 'V' you referred to when we (TWC) do the 'X' (it's half of the 'X') - just like you can see it on your computer screen as you read this.

That said - what's different here than from the motion used in the HFY SLT?

The actual "look" of this part of your SLT high and low position - anything different? Or is it the same motion? (I'm referring to the 'X' and you are looking at that part of the 'X' that looks like a 'V'). So what's the difference if the motion(s) signify the same thing?

DO YOU SEE MY POINT?

No?

Well then look at it this way: the 'X' and the 'V' both point to 4 gates - IN BOTH SYSTEMS...but I was talking about 6 gates because wing chun (all wing chun) uses the defense of 6 gates in the final analysis.

Is this not true of HFY?

So technically, when referring to the move at the beginning of SLT - we ARE defining 4 gates - that's true. 4 of them - two high and two low - from the middle of the body on up. (The other two being below the waist, ie.- the leg and groin areas...HEAVEN (head)...MAN (trunk of the body)...EARTH (legs) - combining your terminology with ours.

So you got me on that - I mis-spoke when I said 6 - but my doing that doesn't change the meaning of the 'X' motion used in TWC. It still defines 4 gates.

And besides defining the gates - it also defines how the arms are to be used within the proper FACING (deui ying?) so that both arms won't go outside the BOX (theory) wherein they reach to the same exact distance simultaneously without so much as having to turn a shoulder at all.

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You also wrote his:

"From what I have read here and seen in pictures, there is an X created, where the hands/finger tips point to the corners of a box when crossed at the low and high bounds out to the shoulder dimension. This can clearly be seen in the pictures Phil provided...Are you saying that these pictures are wrong? (JP)

***NO, I'M NOT.


"Also, it looks as if the fingers are at the shoulder dimension when crossed at the upper bound, and the arms clearly look to be at an X shape (the lines in the picture help illustrate this point. Further, the elbows seem to point at almost 45 degrees in the opposite direction.
From a HFY perspective, this would be incorrect, as it goes against our CL theories, our distinct ref. points of the formula, as well as 4-gate TYD (I say 4-gate since 6-gate is not present with this facing..." (JP)

***Don't understand what you mean by how the elbows are at 45 degrees here? 45 degrees in relation to what/where?